Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

An unvaccinated person is more likely to catch and transmit covid than somebody who has been vaccinated. They might not end up in hospital, but they are driving the spread much faster than a vaccinated person. Which indirectly increases hospital admissions.

More transmission can also increase the risk of mutations.

The more people who are vaccinated, the less the risk to everyone. For omicron, it looks like a booster really helps.

@CherryBlossomAutumn

We have to watch this though *@Ohsofedupwiththis*

The far right agenda really like to infiltrate social media boards and other ‘ways in’ to spread misinformation, and hover around boards including mumsnet. There are coordinated campaigns and persistent posting of misinformation should be put on a watch list by mumsnet.

It was suggested on another thread that members of HART, UsForThem, FLCCC etc probably use social media & forums as a way to spread vaccine misinformation, so that wouldn't suprise me.

I would be interested to know how many accounts of this type are actually from the same poster NC-ing.

How about we lockdown the unvaccinated and leave the vaccinated to get on with their life's🤷🏻‍♀️

[quote Alexandra2001]@nojudgementhere

There are other factors that are arguably reducing hospital capacity just as much if not more - for example the ridiculously short-sighted vaccine mandate in hospitals and carehomes which is creating a staffing crisis as well as the chronic, long-term underfunding of the NHS and reduction in beds. Why are you so hyperfocused on the unvaccinated? It seems people just want an easy target for their anger and frustration when it should by rights be directed at our useless government. Also, lumping the unvaccinated into one big, interchangable category is a bit daft. The risk of an unvaccinated, slim and healthy 18 year old ending up in hospital is negligible so why should they be subjected to coercion such as vaccine passports?

The vaccine requirement for community based and CH staff is bonkers, Agreed!
NHS underfunding and shite handling of the pandemic by this tory govt, again, Agreed.

BUT the one thing i can do right now to ease the work load on NHS staff and free up capacity is to get vaccinated.[/quote]
Not knowing you I can't really judge! But if you're fit, slim and under 50 then I would imagine the chances of you getting particularly poorly with Covid are relatively small, particularly as the latest evidence in South Africa is pointing towards death/hospitilisation rates being far lower with Omicron. It's been reported today that hospitilisation rates are 91% down on previous waves and death rates two-thirds, and while that may not translate perfectly to the UK it certainly looks encouraging.

I do get what you're saying, but I personally don't agree with young people, particularly children and teens, being coerced into getting a vaccine that might not be in their best interests, particularly if they are having to get frequent boosters. There are obviously some risks of side-effects, however small, otherwise the JCVI would not have prevaricated and initially only recommended a single dose.

@Mrsmch123

How about we lockdown the unvaccinated and leave the vaccinated to get on with their life's🤷🏻‍♀️

A strategy being used elsewhere I believe

Personally I'd support it. But then I'd just add vaccines to the water 😂

Does anyone object to fluoride so strongly? (Said in jest)

@wishingitwasspring now there's an idea!!i feel you should pitch this to the powers that be😬

@wishingitwasspring

I don't believe it's being used anywhere (was suggested in Austria I think) because there's just not enough evidence to justify it's use

Vaccine passports, with alternatives to those who don't want to be vaccinated, testing, mandatory masksand lockdown restrictions for all, are pretty much the only measures that can be utlised effectively I think

Again, I’m posting actual figures irt talking about pressure on hospitals not likelihood of an unvaccinated vs vaccinated person ending up there. As I’ve already said (several times) the vaccine reduces the risk of serious illness/hospitalisation but people saying that 90% of people in icu are unvaccinated (or similar) are incorrect according to the recent data. It’s resulting in lots of blame, finger pointing and hatred towards others and I don’t think it is helpful.

The snide little comments to each other are a bit silly btw. Seriously, can you not have an adult conversation? I’m pretty sure you’d tell your children off for behaving like that.

I don’t like people quoting inaccurate figures, pointing fingers and directing hate at people.

Ironic!

@bumbleymummy

Again, I’m posting actual figures irt talking about pressure on hospitals not likelihood of an unvaccinated vs vaccinated person ending up there. As I’ve already said (several times) the vaccine reduces the risk of serious illness/hospitalisation but people saying that 90% of people in icu are unvaccinated (or similar) are incorrect according to the recent data. It’s resulting in lots of blame, finger pointing and hatred towards others and I don’t think it is helpful.

The snide little comments to each other are a bit silly btw. Seriously, can you not have an adult conversation? I’m pretty sure you’d tell your children off for behaving like that.

Cool story bro.

You are not quoting actual figures and you aren't understanding the figures you are posting!

@nojudgementhere yes, the news from SA is looking really positive. It’s a shame we’re focussing on so many worst case scenarios and churning up so much bad feeling amongst people.

@leafyygreens

there is a real anti vax agenda persistently pushed through by a few people. Some people have their own reasons which I respect. They don’t really persistently post though. I have no respect for someone just pushing an anti vax narrative. Make your own choices. But add to misinformation about vaccines / ICU? No, that’s really not OK.

Agreed @CherryBlossomAutumn

It's how dogged it is, always treading a very careful line to be subtly discouraging vaccination but not overtly "anti-vax" so most posts aren't deleted. Very insidious.

That's hysterical! And you say we're the ones with the tin foil hats. Maybe you're just feeling a little bit cross because @Bumbleymummy tends to run circles around you with her arguments and grasp of figures?

@bumbleymummy

Again, I’m posting actual figures irt talking about pressure on hospitals not likelihood of an unvaccinated vs vaccinated person ending up there. As I’ve already said (several times) the vaccine reduces the risk of serious illness/hospitalisation but people saying that 90% of people in icu are unvaccinated (or similar) are incorrect according to the recent data. It’s resulting in lots of blame, finger pointing and hatred towards others and I don’t think it is helpful.

The snide little comments to each other are a bit silly btw. Seriously, can you not have an adult conversation? I’m pretty sure you’d tell your children off for behaving like that.

You’ve had a few posts deleted for a reason.

And you definitely responded with misinformation to me.

More childishness.

Yes, I’ve quoted actual figures from official sources and they back up the points I’m making just fine. I think the problem is that some of you think I’m trying to say something different. Oh well.

That's hysterical! And you say we're the ones with the tin foil hats. Maybe you're just feeling a little bit cross because @Bumbleymummy tends to run circles around you with her arguments and grasp of figures?

@nojudgementhere

Not really sure why factually pointing out that a particular poster has a long posting history of discouraging vaccination, exaggerating their risks & minimising the risks of infectious disease means I "have a tin foil hat".

And I've never referred to you or anyone else on here as such... (I save that for the real anti-vaccine groups like HART & people like Mike Yeadon)

I'm not cross in the slighest it's just tiring - @bumbleymummy doesn't "run rings", she just consistently misinterprets & swerves.

Where? I’ve already asked you and you still haven’t told me.

It’s resulting in lots of blame, finger pointing and hatred towards others and I don’t think it is helpful.

I'm not sure endless finger pointing at people with higher BMIs is achieving anything. It's not news high BMI is a risk factor. It is also no longer accurate to depict people of heavier weight as the only ones affected badly by this virus.

Imagine your surprise, wheeled into a corridor in a major hospital, which is now too overcrowded to do much for you anymore, 'But my BMI is excellent! I am a size 8!"

It's just crazy because it isn't just coronavirus. It was the same old arguments for flu, HPV, MMR etc, going back years and years on MN.

Another epidemic in 10 years? Can guarantee the same poster will still be here, with the same recycled arguments.

@leafyygreens yes I think social media, and other organizations representing people like lobbying groups have to really wake up and smell the coffee. The far right literally have a list of organizations, like religious / nationalistic ones and will jump on topics, aligning with GB news or other outlets. They encourage people to persistently post on social media, to literally drown out more moderate voices, such as twitter where I see good, decent scientists be absolutely hounded, and every response has a counter ‘far right’ response.

These people have a lot of time on their hands!

It’s social media’s job to be on top of this. Including Mumsnet.

@bumbleymummy has had quite a few posts deleted already, for a reason.

@leafyygreens

Ahem.

And I’m certainly not antivax. I’m very grateful for them and think they have saved millions of lives.

And we just literally had a conversation about how I think we should be encouraging people with higher BMIs to have the vaccine.

[quote bumbleymummy]@leafyygreens

Ahem.

And I’m certainly not antivax. I’m very grateful for them and think they have saved millions of lives.

And we just literally had a conversation about how I think we should be encouraging people with higher BMIs to have the vaccine. [/quote]
saying that vulnerable people or those with BMIs should be vaccinated does not make the rest of your posts less problematic

you'd be hard pushed to find many people, even true "anti-vaxxers", who don't think high risk individuals should be vaccinated

the issues are with you discouraging vaccination for the general population

It's not news high BMI is a risk factor. It is also no longer accurate to depict people of heavier weight as the only ones affected badly by this virus.

I certainly haven’t said they’re the only ones affected badly by the virus. It’s pretty clear that age is still the biggest risk factor. I’m not sure I agree that the message about BMI being a significant risk factor is really out there though.

And I’m certainly not antivax.

Well... You may have a blind spot there.

But as an unvaxxed person, you are certainly part of the problem in this pandemic.

And as a poster who relentlessly posts - encouraging the less bright among those haunting these boards - weird, circular arguments, bungled 'facts', and endless misdirection, you are increasing the problem exponentially.

Repeating once more until it sinks in:

The difference between "not being vaccinated" vs "smoking/obesity/sky-diving injuries etc.", is that the "not being vaccinated" thing is surging wildly at a particular time of year, and also (COVID being contagious) causes waves of infection that force HCWs to take time of work. Both of which, coming together at the same time, throws hospitals into chaos.

People here refusing the vaccine need to understand that patience is rapidly running out, for these reasons.

There is zero appetite or capacity for more restrictions in the UK and restrictions and social distancing are not fair on children, and it's making people feel angry and protective of their kids, who they are seeing being deprived of a normal childhood.

If the UK has another bad winter (most likely , I think there will be some pressure but no Apocalypse Now, but who knows), then the knives are really going to come out in 2022. Either you'll face ever harsher rules pressuring you, or there will be growing political pressure to bill you for part of your care, deprioritize you, or something else.

Doctors and nurses, in my experience, are normally pretty strict about "I treat, I don't judge," but I've recently been hearing more and more comments from people who actually work in healthcare services hinting that they are actually getting exasperated to the point that they might be willing to consider stuff like the above.

You need to get your jabs.

Patience is wearing thinner all the time.

As for needle phobes, a nasal spray will apparently be available soon. It's being trialled and looks fine.

the issues are with you discouraging vaccination for the general population

You’ve been accusing me of this for some time. It doesn’t make it true. I would never tell someone that they should or shouldn’t have the vaccine. Unlike some people on this thread, I don’t think it is any of my business what decisions people make in relation to their own health.