Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

yep, they’re the ones I referred to earlier - unvaccinated in November at 48%, down from 75% in May. So, yes, please do refer to those when you see people saying things like ‘90% of people in icu are unvaccinated’ because it shows that it isn’t the case.

Another example of when I don’t think you fully understand the stats you quote. The fact that currently, 69.9% of people are vaccinated in the UK and still, of those unvaccinated, the fact that 48% of ICU beds are taken up by the smaller group is not a good thing and proves the point posters are making that someone is more likely to end up in an ICU bed if they are unvaccinated.

Completely agree OP and they will be the ones moaning the loudest when we have another lockdown

Nope I work on a covid ward majority are vaccinated patients.

@ChloeDecker

yep, they’re the ones I referred to earlier - unvaccinated in November at 48%, down from 75% in May. So, yes, please do refer to those when you see people saying things like ‘90% of people in icu are unvaccinated’ because it shows that it isn’t the case.

Another example of when I don’t think you fully understand the stats you quote. The fact that currently, 69.9% of people are vaccinated in the UK and still, of those unvaccinated, the fact that 48% of ICU beds are taken up by the smaller group is not a good thing and proves the point posters are making that someone is more likely to end up in an ICU bed if they are unvaccinated.

Thank-you!

@ChloeDecker is absolutely correct.

I lost the will to live with this poster long ago and couldn't be bothered to point this out earlier.

[quote Alexandra2001]@nojudgementhere

Nope, but have failed to reply to the argument that you, by not being vaccinated are reducing capacity in Hospitals.
In the first, unvaccinated, wave, many ICU's were full and emergency admission had to go other regions, some died.

Because people are refusing vaccinations, they are contributing , not only to capacity issues but to healthcare staffs stress and illness.[/quote]
There are other factors that are arguably reducing hospital capacity just as much if not more - for example the ridiculously short-sighted vaccine mandate in hospitals and carehomes which is creating a staffing crisis as well as the chronic, long-term underfunding of the NHS and reduction in beds. Why are you so hyperfocused on the unvaccinated? It seems people just want an easy target for their anger and frustration when it should by rights be directed at our useless government. Also, lumping the unvaccinated into one big, interchangable category is a bit daft. The risk of an unvaccinated, slim and healthy 18 year old ending up in hospital is negligible so why should they be subjected to coercion such as vaccine passports?

Yes the vaccine works, does it work to the degree where it should be up for consideration as mandatory - given it’s potency waxes & wanes over relatively short periods so far?

I don’t think so personally, though the next persons opinion may differ etc.

@notanotherschoolrun

Nope I work on a covid ward majority are vaccinated patients.

Really? If the media is anything to go by it's 80% unvaccinated that are taking up the beds.

I must say now with this Omicron wave my patience has run out with those who refuse to get vaccinated (obvs not those who can't get vaccinated for medical reasons - I really feel for them. Must be awful). I don't care how much ICU capacity they clog up - 48%, 75%, 90% - whatever. Even the lowest number means that significant capacity and resources are taken up just because they didn't want to get their free jab.

This now has huge repercussions for all of us. Obviously for the doctors and nurses having to care for them but also all of us now facing more restrictions, potential school closures, cancelled operations leading to untold suffering by those who have illnesses they couldn't have prevented by getting a simple jab.

I understand that compulsory vaccinations aren't the answer but I wish the unvaccinated could be put at the back of the NHS queue and resources allocated as a priority to those who haven't done anything to exacerbate this terrible crisis. I know that would not be deemed ethical. But how is it ethical that cancer patients get their operations or treatment cancelled or delayed?

@nojudgementhere

There are other factors that are arguably reducing hospital capacity just as much if not more - for example the ridiculously short-sighted vaccine mandate in hospitals and carehomes which is creating a staffing crisis as well as the chronic, long-term underfunding of the NHS and reduction in beds. Why are you so hyperfocused on the unvaccinated? It seems people just want an easy target for their anger and frustration when it should by rights be directed at our useless government. Also, lumping the unvaccinated into one big, interchangable category is a bit daft. The risk of an unvaccinated, slim and healthy 18 year old ending up in hospital is negligible so why should they be subjected to coercion such as vaccine passports?

The vaccine requirement for community based and CH staff is bonkers, Agreed!
NHS underfunding and shite handling of the pandemic by this tory govt, again, Agreed.

BUT the one thing i can do right now to ease the work load on NHS staff and free up capacity is to get vaccinated.

@ChloeDecker

yep, they’re the ones I referred to earlier - unvaccinated in November at 48%, down from 75% in May. So, yes, please do refer to those when you see people saying things like ‘90% of people in icu are unvaccinated’ because it shows that it isn’t the case.

Another example of when I don’t think you fully understand the stats you quote. The fact that currently, 69.9% of people are vaccinated in the UK and still, of those unvaccinated, the fact that 48% of ICU beds are taken up by the smaller group is not a good thing and proves the point posters are making that someone is more likely to end up in an ICU bed if they are unvaccinated.

Yes, Chloe I understand that perfectly. I’m referring to actual numbers in icu - just as the people who are saying that ‘90% of people in icu are unvaccinated’ are - not likelihood. I’ve said several times that the vaccine reduces the risk of serious illness/hospitalisation.

@jewel1968

And I do agree no vaccines are without risk. And this vaccine is relatively knew so possibly more risky. My risk assessment is COVID is a greater risk. But then my mother died from it do that impacts my decision I guess.

But what happens to the people who know someone who died of the vaccine or had a life changing adverse reaction? Not just side effects but a full blown life changing reaction ?

@Mumadof3 there will be less people that no someone who died or was ill froM the vaccine that of covid As the numbers for covid are so high
Buy yes if course that would make you much more wary understandably

Why are you so hyperfocused on the unvaccinated? It seems people just want an easy target for their anger and frustration when it should by rights be directed at our useless government.

I think it is because it is an easy target that people are focused on the unvaccinated. It is a really easy fix, much easier than curing obesity for example like some other posters are hyperfocused on. A few jabs and bam, down goes the strain on the health service. It really couldn't be easier. People find it difficult to understand why someone wouldn't want such an easy fix so there is more room to focus on cancer treatments, operations etc. Why wouldn't you want to part of a really easy solution rather than part of the problem?

@nojudgementhere well more people are vaccinated that not so that would be expected but if say 80% of population is vaccinated and 20% isnt and you have 60% vaccinated in hospital and 40% unvaccinated that still makes it a higher percentage of unvaccinated
And you can't assume your ward is representive of the whole country

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Mumadof3 there will be less people that no someone who died or was ill froM the vaccine that of covid As the numbers for covid are so high
Buy yes if course that would make you much more wary understandably[/quote]
I don't know.

Lots of people know someone who has died or had life changing complications due to Covid vaccine.

There is loads of them on a local FB groups. It's really weird as they all have one thing in common, and vaccination ain't it!

Doctors and nurses say they are deeply concerned at the number of seriously ill patients being transferred to critical care beds who are still unvaccinated.

Michael Bartley, a critical care matron at King’s, estimated that “80 to 90%” in the hospital’s critical care beds were unvaccinated.

He said: “We are not here to judge patients – we are here to look after them – but this can be a scary place. If the patient is too unwell, we will take over their breathing, intubating and ventilating them.

“The disease can affect all the organs of the body, and the long-term effects can be devastating. We have a number of patients who have been with us for more than 100 days. The age of those who are unvaccinated is about 35 to 65. The message is ‘please get your vaccines’.”

With regards to 48% / 90 % unvaccinated or not....

Some areas have much higher rates of vaccination than others.

I would expect in Birmingham for example there would be more than 48% unvaccinated in hospital.

In most of Scotland, I would expect less than 48% to be unvaccinated since vaccination uptake is so high.

So if a doctor says 9 out of 10, that may be true for his / her hospital. I doubt they are in a position to talk about other hospitals.

NEW - South Korea imposes the country's toughest Covid restrictions since the start of the pandemic amid a record case surge. 92% of the population is fully "vaccinated.". Blimey wake up people!!

So if a doctor says 9 out of 10, that may be true for his / her hospital. I doubt they are in a position to talk about other hospitals.

I suspect they may be in more of a position than some mn poster who misreads graphs and plucks data at random to twist and prove a point.

Why are you so hyperfocused on the unvaccinated? It seems people just want an easy target for their anger and frustration when it should by rights be directed at our useless government. Also, lumping the unvaccinated into one big, interchangable category is a bit daft. The risk of an unvaccinated, slim and healthy 18 year old ending up in hospital is negligible so why should they be subjected to coercion such as vaccine passports?

Agree.

[quote Beadebaser]@bumbleymummy - I’ve seen you on many threads and you have a tendency to manipulate and perpetuate misinformation - albeit subtlety. You say one thing, and when challenged - you’ll change your rhetoric slightly - or claim you’ve been misinterpreted. It’s really unpleasant.[/quote]
Yes I noticed this. She put up a graph which she hadn’t even looked at, saying it refuted something I’d said, just to have a ‘graph’ I think because it actually backed up what I’d said! There is a real anti vax agenda persistently pushed through by a few people. Some people have their own reasons which I respect. They don’t really persistently post though. I have no respect for someone just pushing an anti vax narrative. Make your own choices. But add to misinformation about vaccines / ICU? No, that’s really not OK.

I suspect they may be in more of a position than some mn poster who misreads graphs and plucks data at random to twist and prove a point.*

Ha ha so true. I am sure ~ 90% of the adult population can see the misinterpretation by said poster. But boy is it neverending.

We have to watch this though @Ohsofedupwiththis

The far right agenda really like to infiltrate social media boards and other ‘ways in’ to spread misinformation, and hover around boards including mumsnet. There are coordinated campaigns and persistent posting of misinformation should be put on a watch list by mumsnet.

there is a real anti vax agenda persistently pushed through by a few people. Some people have their own reasons which I respect. They don’t really persistently post though. I have no respect for someone just pushing an anti vax narrative. Make your own choices. But add to misinformation about vaccines / ICU? No, that’s really not OK.

Agreed @CherryBlossomAutumn

It's how dogged it is, always treading a very careful line to be subtly discouraging vaccination but not overtly "anti-vax" so most posts aren't deleted. Very insidious.

@CherryBlossomAutumn where? Did you point it out at the time? I don’t feel the need to just ‘have a graph’ unless I think it is actually supporting a point I am making.

And I’m certainly not antivax. I’m very grateful for them and think they have saved millions of lives. I do think people should be allowed to make their own decision about them though and I don’t like people quoting inaccurate figures, pointing fingers and directing hate at people.