Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@DDUW

I'm unvaccinated. I'm not coming in contact with anybody so I don't see that I am part of the problem.

What you literally never leave the house?

[quote EmpressCixi]@nojudgementhere
mRNA immunotherapy has been around for twenty years. It has a long history of safe use against cancer. Only thing new about a mRNA vaccine is the type of pathogen we are fighting. The safety of injecting mRNA into humans is long established and proven.

I don’t agree that vaccine mandates are always unethical. I am not “full of fear”. I see fighting pandemics to be a joint human enterprise that we should all do our bit for the greater good. And you talk about dark and dystopian but in many enlightened nations some vaccines are currently mandatory for infants and children with very few exceptions allowed in law.
ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

Did you force your baby to have vaccines without their consent? If you would do it to a baby, then why is an adult suddenly more valuable?

And let’s look at what compulsory vaccination has done historically. Smallpox vaccination was compulsory in the U.K. for over a half a century. This combined with similar efforts worldwide resulted in the disease being eradicated. Now younger generations are free from the risks of both the disease AND the vaccine. Forever. Is this not a good thing? Would not a “dystopia” be a world where millions still died of smallpox every year rather than the here and now where no one catches or dies of smallpox?[/quote]
Everything done to a baby is done without their consent, because it is impossible for them to consent. An adult (and Gillick competent children) can give or withdraw consent to any treatment.

The smallpox vaccine was only ever mandatory for babies.

Mandate vaccines now Only way to stop this rubbish

@LidlMiddleLover

Mandate vaccines now Only way to stop this rubbish

How would you propose the vaccines are mandated?

@Tuba437

The answer is simple and essentially refuse to let them into work etc unless they are jabbed along with restrictions on all shops/hospitality (tough tits they can get home delivery of the essentials) if they need it.

So you want all the unvaccinated to sit at home and claim benefits!

Sitting at home will also mean that no taxes will be paid through working which means the Nhs will be even more underfunded then it already is!

Yes they need mandating. It’s the only way to get some semblance of normality back.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Smokers and drinkers only affect the person concerned. They aren’t infectious.

Covid is a contagious disease which is causing misery across the whole country.

There is some truth in that but if you go to A&E you’ll see an awful lot of people in dire straights due to alcohol or drug abuse (especially at the weekend!). Also, drug and alcohol abuse causes affects the innocent lives of the children, families and communities where these people live. Not to mention drunk drivers who kill or drug addicts who break into homes...

So you want all the unvaccinated to sit at home and claim benefits!

Why should the welfare state support them if they can’t return the favour though?

My antivax friend, whom i love very much, told me that she reads things like this thread and can't believe people are talking about her.

She thinks because she does loads of LFTs that she's more responsible than everyone who has taken an "experimental" vaccine.

Oh and she reckons she's nit an antivaxxer either! 🙈

I am at a loss as to what to say to this level of cognitive dissonance.

Science and medicine aren't 'beliefs'

Maybe not but science and medical advice changes all the time as more is known about both.

There are lots of reason people don’t want jabs. Unfortunately I think many have been called stupid and selfish so often they are more entrenched now than before. All the unvaccinated people I know have caught Covid already so are now naturally immune. No way will they get a vaccine now.

Draining NHS, police resources and affecting the lives of everyone around them.

But the impact of smoking/drinking/obesity doesn’t affect anywhere the same number of people as Covid.

Do we have 90,000 cases of them every day? They are not comparable.

To the posters that say about protecting yourself, what about if all of your family has allergies, some to a higher degree than others with more family members than not having experienced anaphylaxis? Perhaps, yes it is selfish not to get vaccinated but when you have seen your nearest and dearest unresponsive due to allergic reactions and you spend everyday of your life protecting them from things that nobody else has to worry about it is only natural to put them first before others.

So many things to say here. Omicron is spreading like wildfire despite vaccinations. I am unvaccinated, not scared to get the vaccine myself but I am scared about it being pushed onto my children which is the slippery slope we are descending.

Talking about listening to the scientists - there are plenty who are researching this and don’t have the views we are fed by media. Look at Professor Robert Mallone. The vaccine technology is his original work, he is vaccinated but very clearly states the damage to children of vaccine. What about Professor Norman Fenton of Queen Mary University who is shedding light on the reporting of unvaccinated deaths - the figures are being distorted as they are counting anyone still within 21 days of the vaccine as unvaccinated. Those deaths could be related or unrelated to vaccine but that is not being investigated.

In My personal circle, small of course so cannot be used as reliable data, i have seen vaccinated and unvaccinated catch covid. Equal measures having a light or heavy reaction to the illness but the interesting thing is that the vaccinated appear to have longer term struggles with it. Having spoken to a medical professional about this it is simply because the body needs to get rid of the toxins and the spike proteins of the vaccine mean the vaccinated can take longer for their body to flush the toxins.

I’m not an ignorant fool who just doesn’t want to listen, I am listening but there is conflicting evidence out there. Problem is that the other side is not being discussed. I’m sure this is not conspiracy but just the reality that the vaccine is being pushed to the info given to us is understandably one sided.

@PinkiOcelot

There’s some absolutely ridiculous generalisations on this thread, especially those of *@Goodmorninglights*. What an utter load of BS your post is.

Touch a nerve did it?

I got the flu vaccine this year but I’m unvaccinated against covid. I’m all up to date on immunisations, as are my kids. I even paid for my dd to have the men b vax privately before it was on the national vaccine schedule. I’m not anti vax clearly. Loving the way Sajid Javid is now making non-covid vaxxed people the perpetrators now. Interesting.

@lightisnotwhite

Science and medicine aren't 'beliefs'

Maybe not but science and medical advice changes all the time as more is known about both.

There are lots of reason people don’t want jabs. Unfortunately I think many have been called stupid and selfish so often they are more entrenched now than before. All the unvaccinated people I know have caught Covid already so are now naturally immune. No way will they get a vaccine now.

They are not naturally immune! 🙈

But you are unvaccinated due to disability if you are at risk of anaphylaxis.

That is not the same as choosing not to get vaccinated because you can.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But the impact of smoking/drinking/obesity doesn’t affect anywhere the same number of people as Covid.

Do we have 90,000 cases of them every day? They are not comparable.

Thing is if less people smoked/drank/were obese then we wouldn't have 90,000 cases a day, or less of them would be in hospital at least.

People say "it's easy to get a jab, it's hard to lose weight" but the point is, for anti-vaxxers it's NOT easy to get a jab. The ones I know would have to be strapped down by police to get it, they would be willing to give up everything else in order to not get it.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

So you want all the unvaccinated to sit at home and claim benefits!

Why should the welfare state support them if they can’t return the favour though?

Because if they are working they are paying money into the system, again funding the Nhs, so they are returning the ‘favour’ as you put it.

The unvaccinated are holding the country to ransom.

The NHS could cope with numbers of vaccinated who need intensive care. Many of these have underlying conditions and would have needed hospitalisation anyway.

It's the numbers of relatively young unvaccinated who take up ventilators and ICU beds for weeks on end who are putting a huge additional strain on the NHS. Each of these is preventing about 10 people from receiving the medical care they need.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But you are unvaccinated due to disability if you are at risk of anaphylaxis.

That is not the same as choosing not to get vaccinated because you can.

This.

This is why I am starting to question our current ethos of individual freedom the democratic process. The former isn't compatible with managing virulent outbreaks or tackling climate change and the latter relies on an educated and informed population with good judgement and a sense of the what's best for all - which seems to be lacking. What to do?

I'm sick to the back teeth of them. The vast majority are not scared but simply selfish idiots. They are responsible not just for more restrictions etc but directly contribute to the awful pressure on the NHS. Where staff are literally on their knees with exhaustion and stress.

People on here saying 'oh it's ok I'm don't get out much and I wear a mask if I do'. It's a HIGHLY TRANSMISSIBLE virus. If you get it unvaccinated you're more likely to DIE or need ICU CARE. But no, you crack on being completely fucking selfish. Do they not look at the data and see how clear it is that the vaccination saves lives and stops serious illness? I mean how much more stark does it accept to be?

@XenoBitch
Yes the smallpox vaccine was mandatory for babies in the U.K. starting in 1853. However, their parents could not legally refuse to have their infants vaccinated. So the vaccines were done without either the baby or their parents’ consent. No consent was necessary.

My points still stand. Historical use of vaccine mandates has been for the greater good, so they are not automatically unethical or lead to dystopian and dark futures. Secondly, in numerous countries vaccine mandates do currently exist for infants and children, look at the world map of these countries....are these dystopias? Hardly. So why is it more ethically acceptable to compel a baby to risk their life than an adult?

I support the mandatory vaccine program for NHS staff and care home workers.