Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

'Individual freedom AND the democratic process'

Because if they are working they are paying money into the system, again funding the Nhs, so they are returning the ‘favour’ as you put it

That’s up to individual employers whether they employ the unvaccinated or not,

I’m not sure it would have massive effect on unemployment rates or taxes if they weren’t employed.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Yes they need mandating. It’s the only way to get some semblance of normality back.

Ha! Do you really think that! This is all smoke and mirrors so that the public’s attention is drawn away from the real problems: Brexit, knife crime, inflation, rising energy prices, poverty (child and increase in food banks needed), HS2 changes… I could go on. It’s a classic political move used many times e.g. Galtieri invades the Falklands to redirect attention away from failing economy.

@Waferbiscuit

This is why I am starting to question our current ethos of individual freedom the democratic process. The former isn't compatible with managing virulent outbreaks or tackling climate change and the latter relies on an educated and informed population with good judgement and a sense of the what's best for all - which seems to be lacking. What to do?

I guess the alternative is some sort of communism, which never goes down well ("Do you want to be like China?!")

In My personal circle, small of course so cannot be used as reliable data, i have seen vaccinated and unvaccinated catch covid.

How many of your vaccinated friends needed hospital treatment?

They’re too selfish to care NashvilleQueen.

It’s needs nailing. That’s the way back to normality and a normal nhs.

@vickyp0llard I'm fairly confident there are other options for govt that aren't just what we have and communism. I'm not suggesting we move to a dictatorship but people don't seem to vote for the greater good and rash individualism is actually causing people to die.

All the unvaccinated people I know have caught Covid already so are now naturally immune.

🤦🏻‍♀️ sometimes I just want to give up. Do people really believe this?!

@vickyp0llard
WTAF does communism have to do with vaccine mandates? Most of the countries that have them are capitalist.

People say "it's easy to get a jab, it's hard to lose weight" but the point is, for anti-vaxxers it's NOT easy to get a jab. The ones I know would have to be strapped down by police to get it, they would be willing to give up everything else in order to not get it

@vickyp0llard

Exactly. The vaccines have been out for ages. The people who have not had any so far are not going to find it "easy" to get it.... and that could be because they are so deep a conspiracy rabbit hole that they now have a genuine anxiety about it. I don't think there are many people who are unvaccinated due to apathy.

@NashvilleQueen

In My personal circle, small of course so cannot be used as reliable data, i have seen vaccinated and unvaccinated catch covid.

How many of your vaccinated friends needed hospital treatment?

None of either vaccinated or unvaccinated needed hospitalisation. Then again I’ve been lucky enough to not know anyone hospitalised from this throughout. Maybe I don’t have many friends 😀.

I did state in that part of my post that it was a small reference group so it was just an add on to my post.

@EarPlugAfficionado

This is all smoke and mirrors so that the public’s attention is drawn away from the real problems: Brexit, knife crime, inflation, rising energy prices, poverty (child and increase in food banks needed), HS2 changes… I could go on. It’s a classic political move used many times e.g. Galtieri invades the Falklands to redirect attention away from failing economy.

So you believe Covid is... what? A hoax? A conspiracy? Being grossly exaggerated?

@youvegottenminuteslynn

All the unvaccinated people I know have caught Covid already so are now naturally immune.

🤦🏻‍♀️ sometimes I just want to give up. Do people really believe this?!

If there is not an immunity after covid (period of time debatable) then why do pretty much all countries accept either vaccine or recently recovered?

@Narutocrazyfox

I'm not an anti vaxxer by any means - I'm fully vaccinated against the diseases I need to be, as are my family.

I have not had any covid vaccinations as having carefully assessed my risk, I do not consider myself to need one. I had covid last month (delta, presumably) and was under the weather for a couple of days, mild infection and no after effects.

If the vaccine prevented you from catching, carrying or spreading covid I might re-assess my decision - but it doesn't.

I'm careful when out and about, avoid crowds, always wear a mask and observe social distancing and wash my hands regularly.

The uvaccinated are not the reason the NHS is on it's knees, they are just a very convenient scapegoat. The government has had two years now to take measures to improve NHS services and has done basically bugger all.

Absolutely yes to everything in this post finally one person out of thousands, speaking sense. 99% on here just absorb everything BBC news tell them and spout it back out as gospel.

[quote EmpressCixi]@XenoBitch
Yes the smallpox vaccine was mandatory for babies in the U.K. starting in 1853. However, their parents could not legally refuse to have their infants vaccinated. So the vaccines were done without either the baby or their parents’ consent. No consent was necessary.

My points still stand. Historical use of vaccine mandates has been for the greater good, so they are not automatically unethical or lead to dystopian and dark futures. Secondly, in numerous countries vaccine mandates do currently exist for infants and children, look at the world map of these countries....are these dystopias? Hardly. So why is it more ethically acceptable to compel a baby to risk their life than an adult?

I support the mandatory vaccine program for NHS staff and care home workers.[/quote]
But it was 1853! What we did before doesn't mean we should do it again. Human society has evolved.
Yes, historically human did many things in the name of the "great good", and caused tens of millions of death!

@EarPlugAfficionado

Yes, HS2, changes to a bloody railroad are the “real problem” not a deadly virus that’s killed 170,911 people and rising by over a 100 more killed every day. You’re absolutely spot on that Covid is just smoke and mirrors to distracts us from the real problem that the poor people in Leeds and Manchester won’t get to London 25mins faster than they used to....

@Honeyhorse

I’m not vaccinated because I’ve got a needle phobia but I’m getting increasingly upset at being criticised in the same breath as the anti vaxxers, I’m not an anti vaxxer. But all these people calling for those who don’t get the vaccine to be not treated by the NHS, it really frightens and upsets me.

I really sympathise with you. I have a phobia of hospitals and my local vaccination centre is in a hospital. However, I figured I'd rather face my phobia in two (now 3) short, controlled bouts than be going in there as an emergency when lots of people would be touching me, injecting me with things etc.

It wasn't fun, but at least I could be somewhat in control of it, rather than what could happen if I had a bad reaction to the actual virus. If you were to catch the virus and react badly, you'd undoubtedly be injected with more than a vaccine... I'm not intending to be rude or unsympathetic. But if you really have a needle phobia, how would you deal with being ill in hospital? Wouldn't you do anything to avoid it?

Whilst I agree they are part of the issue in hospital capacity, lockdowns are and always were a political choice. People are quite capable of making risk averse choices without being criminalised for having a cup of tea.

@Panacotta why would they not be immune if they have had covid? Reinfection is rare. T cell memory is not

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

So you want all the unvaccinated to sit at home and claim benefits!

Why should the welfare state support them if they can’t return the favour though?

No medical procedure should be a condition of claiming benefits.

People are very judgemental and over-simplifying of things they haven't experienced. Not many know how it feels to be lectured for 2 hours with terrifying stories of side effects and vaccine deaths every time you visit your family, or to have a bad side-effect to a childhood jab and have health anxiety that it could happen again. In the end I did get the covid jab but it was terrifying, I didn't sleep all night beforehand and was shaking as I went in. For me, it genuinely was easier to lose 15kg of weight.

[quote EmpressCixi]@EarPlugAfficionado

Yes, HS2, changes to a bloody railroad are the “real problem” not a deadly virus that’s killed 170,911 people and rising by over a 100 more killed every day. You’re absolutely spot on that Covid is just smoke and mirrors to distracts us from the real problem that the poor people in Leeds and Manchester won’t get to London 25mins faster than they used to....[/quote]
You know 450 people die a day in the Uk from cancer, I expect that has increased with the drop in treatment as we focus solely on CoVID. Although apparently no one dies from anything apart from covid these days because of you die of a stab wound or car crash but tested positive in last 28 days then you are a covid death

@Donotlie
God give me patience.
Yes historically humans have done things that killed millions. No lie.
But the Smallpox mandate of 1853 saved millions of lives when it came into force and now, today, if you added up the millions that would have died each year if we had not mandated the vaccine, this one law has saved billions of lives.

Not every decision was a bad one simply because it was old.

+The uvaccinated are not the reason the NHS is on it's knees, they are just a very convenient scapegoat. The government has had two years now to take measures to improve NHS services and has done basically bugger all*

Oh yes the government need to step up. But at the moment it’s the unvaccinated occupying the ICU beds that should be being used for heart problems/ cancer etc etc. If these were dealt with before unvaccinated cases then the waiting list would be much much shorter.

I don’t know why unvaccinated Covid patients aren’t made to wait and let the cancer etc patients be dealt with first.

Why should someone with cancer lose their nhs bed to an unvaccinated Covid patient. Who should be the priority?

Unfortunately my Uncle has just spent a few months in ICU in Ireland.
He had all his vaccinations throughout his life, but refused to listen to our family and have this one. Thought he was strong enough and fit enough for his natural immunity to sail through Covid.
The heartache and stress he has caused is immense and now he is home and being cared for full time by the family. He’s a shell of the person he was.
The aftermath is that he has lost all his work, he was a building contractor. They have a mortgage to pay, kids to feed. It’s just heartbreaking.