Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@Foxglovesandlilacs86
“I heard on radio 2 the other day the people who are hospitalised atm are 50/50 vaccinated and unvaccinated. So I don’t feel a rush to go and get it because as far as I can see it doesn’t offer much protection.”

Just use some critical thinking and you’ll see your conclusion that the vaccine doesn’t “offer much protection” is wrong headed.

89% or 9 in 10 people are vaccinated in the U.K.. But only 5 in 10 have Covid bad enough to be hospitalised according to your memory of the Radio 2 program. If the vaccine offered no protection, then 9 in 10 people in hospital with Covid would be vaccinated, not 5. Just with these raw facts you should have concluded that the vaccine at least doubles your protection against hospitalisation.

And when you look at how many are in ICU or dead....the protection factor of the vaccine increases even further.

I am really concerned about the lack of education in some of the posters.

If we take the vaccine out of it, they really don't understand basic maths.

Even if it is 50 / 50 in hospital between vaccinated and unvaccinated does not mean that the risk is the same. If the risk was the same then it would be 90 / 10.

This thread is truly awful. I’m pretty dubious as to the source tbh

I think it’s refreshing. It needs to be talked about instead of being the white elephant in the room.

The vaccine is on the NHS. If you choose not to protect the NHS by taking it, why should the NHS protect you? It’s simple.

I think calling anti-vaxxers "stupid and selfish" and acting like a baying mob is quite ignorant and lacking any understanding of why people might be this way.

The 2 antivaxxers I know are very smart - both have phDs, one a professor and one a doctor. However they have always distrusted the government and not had loads of friends locally, so started reading papers online about vaccines and covid. It is an entrenched belief system. They genuinely in their heart of hearts believe they are doing the right thing and everyone else is going to die/do themselves serious harm. They are terrified of side effects more than Covid, doubt the efficacy and are happy to be completely shut out of society. They have convinced other (ill and elderly) family members not to get the vaccine because they think it will kill them. They think it's all a money-making or depopulation plot.

Some of their points I can understand - mRNA is a fairly new technology, there have been a lot of emotive ad campaigns for the vaccine, and they feel that side effects have been hushed up. I'm quite easily influenced so I held off getting the jabs for a while, as I'm young and my natural immune system is good (didn't catch Covid when husband had it or friends at a dinner had it). However when I realised that all my jabbed friends weren't dropping dead like flies, I went and got vaccinated. I haven't told these family members as I think it would cause them a lot of distress and start a huge family argument.

It's like an extreme religious belief or cult, and it takes a very strong-willed person to try and argue against those beliefs. I don't have the energy to deal with it personally, just like I don't go round telling Jehovah's Witnesses they're idiots.

[quote EmpressCixi]@nojudgementhere
Sorry you lost all credibility by referring to a vaccine as a “new drug”. If that’s the extent of your science education, you really should abstain from expressing an opinion about mandated vaccination.[/quote]
Ths is the first time MRNA vaccines have been used in humans so yes, they are pretty new! However, you don't need to be a scientist to realise that mandated vaccines are hideously unethical surely? The Nuremberg Code established that voluntary consent of patients is of paramount importance. Strange that people like you seem to think it is irrelevant, and that because you are full of fear you should be allowed to force somebody else to have a medical intervention that could in worst case scenario lead to their death. If that's not dark and dystopian then I don't know what is!

@Ohsofedupwiththis
am really concerned about the lack of education in some of the posters.

I am too. Not sure if it’s lack of education or critical thinking. I know a few PhDs who think they are smarter than everyone else and have refused the vaccine. Of course they are PhDs in things like Engineering or Archaeology, not any field related to vaccines, viruses etc.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

This thread is truly awful. I’m pretty dubious as to the source tbh

I think it’s refreshing. It needs to be talked about instead of being the white elephant in the room.

The vaccine is on the NHS. If you choose not to protect the NHS by taking it, why should the NHS protect you? It’s simple.

Umm - because I have paid taxes all my working life to pay for NHS treatment? If you'd like to refund that then I will be happy to go private - thank you!!!

I heard on radio 2 the other day the people who are hospitalised atm are 50/50 vaccinated and unvaccinated. So I don’t feel a rush to go and get it because as far as I can see it doesn’t offer much protection. I may have it at some point though.

Yes, which means a disproportionate number of those hospitalised are unvaccinated as most people in the general public are now vaccinated! Can you not see that?

Umm - because I have paid taxes all my working life to pay for NHS treatment? If you'd like to refund that then I will be happy to go private - thank you!!!

So if you invested that much in it why aren’t you protecting it if it means so much to you?

Well I don’t know.

My DD’s friend’s Mum (double jabbed) caught Covid from work (she works in a supermarket) passed it onto her daughter (double jabbed) who passed it on to her friend (double jabbed) who passed it onto who knows who. They were all ill and all isolated. Yet again.

Not sure what we can do really. You might have to go back a long way before you find the unvaccinated person in the chain who passed it on originally... maybe it was a child under 12? Who knows?

Is it possible that those with phDs are likely to be the deep-thinking, analytical sorts who might just question something rather than blindly following what everyone else is doing?
(I don't have a PhD BTW!).

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

This thread is truly awful. I’m pretty dubious as to the source tbh

I think it’s refreshing. It needs to be talked about instead of being the white elephant in the room.

The vaccine is on the NHS. If you choose not to protect the NHS by taking it, why should the NHS protect you? It’s simple.

So i take it you mean for any vaccine not just the covid vaccine? So if any other vaccine is refused then if a person gets ill with that illness they also should not be treated?

What about people who smoke? The Nhs shouldn’t treat them either? Or people who drink…the list goes on and on…

@NinaDefoe did any of those vaccinated end up in ITU?

I should imagine that a great many of the unvaccinated are now immune anyway.
Apparently you get longer lasting immunity from actually catching Covid than vaccination so they may have the last laugh.

As to the 50/50 thing in hospitals obviously that means a greater proportion are unvaccinated since the pool is less. I would worry why it isn’t just the unvaccinated at this point though. It’s been nearly two years.

Oh please, not that old chestnut again @ArseInTheCoOpWindow! I do protect the NHS by exercising, keeping my weight at a sensible level and making other wise health-related choices. I also voted labour and don't advocate mandating vaccines for careworkers or NHS staff as that's pretty obviously going to cause huge problems within both sectors in the very near future. Most people I know had the vaccine to protect them. Not to protect other people and not to protect the NHS. This tiresome virtue signalling really needs to stop.

I fully respect people’s choice not to have the vaccine but the Grim Reaper has a habit of having the final say and unfortunately taking people who have done the right thing early possibly due to people not being jabbed up 😔

No, l just mean the Covid vaccine. Because it’s Covid causing all the restrictions and problems due too it’s level of infection.

There’s some absolutely ridiculous generalisations on this thread, especially those of @Goodmorninglights. What an utter load of BS your post is.

Due to it’s level of infection!

@nojudgementhere
mRNA immunotherapy has been around for twenty years. It has a long history of safe use against cancer. Only thing new about a mRNA vaccine is the type of pathogen we are fighting. The safety of injecting mRNA into humans is long established and proven.

I don’t agree that vaccine mandates are always unethical. I am not “full of fear”. I see fighting pandemics to be a joint human enterprise that we should all do our bit for the greater good. And you talk about dark and dystopian but in many enlightened nations some vaccines are currently mandatory for infants and children with very few exceptions allowed in law.
ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

Did you force your baby to have vaccines without their consent? If you would do it to a baby, then why is an adult suddenly more valuable?

And let’s look at what compulsory vaccination has done historically. Smallpox vaccination was compulsory in the U.K. for over a half a century. This combined with similar efforts worldwide resulted in the disease being eradicated. Now younger generations are free from the risks of both the disease AND the vaccine. Forever. Is this not a good thing? Would not a “dystopia” be a world where millions still died of smallpox every year rather than the here and now where no one catches or dies of smallpox?

[quote SoSickOfItNow]@NinaDefoe did any of those vaccinated end up in ITU?[/quote]
Yes, the mother of DD’s friend. She was there for 3 weeks and is still off work 2 months later.
Not all of them ended up in hospital thankfully! DD and her friend were very poorly but recovered within a couple of weeks.

@Whammyyammy

I genuinely think people believe their own beliefs to be correct, and respect them standing by them. Its totally their choice to not have the vaccine, I'd hate to live in a world without choice. I'm fully vaxxed and got 'boosted this week.

Science and medicine aren't 'beliefs'

No they only see their own needs and wants just don't see the bigger picture or don't want to. X

Thankfully all the PhDs I know (including my other half) have been vaccinated and boosted.

Smokers and drinkers only affect the person concerned. They aren’t infectious.

Covid is a contagious disease which is causing misery across the whole country.