Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@Inthelivingyears

Please give your feedback to my situation and what you would honestly do.

Covid in March 2020, fairly mild at the time, 6-8 weeks later developed terrifying symptoms, had every blood test going, a head/brain mri, heart test, neck X-ray. It was a petrifying time where I literally didn’t know what was happening to my body or mind. My heart rate was 130 on testing, adrenaline surged through my body, I had nightmares and woke from my sleep gasping for air, oxygen levels were lower.
Fast forward to now, much better than back then, but still not well and can’t see myself ever being back to my old self pre covid.
I’ve developed mcas, have regular relapses where I feel full of aches, flu, tinnitus, nausea. My periods are almost non existent, my body becomes full of inflammation.
I’m on daily medication and currently awaiting another eco for my heart as I suffer from heart pain and chest pain on a regular basis.
For all the *Normal people not suffering from
Long covid, the decision to vaccinate is largely pretty simple I imagine, I would’ve been vaccinated a long time ago, had I been you.
People not suffering from long covid won’t likely have much information about being ill about this and the millions of people suffering similar on forums etc, where we all share information as we have zero help from doctors. Some of them have become worse with the vaccine, a few better (not many) and some with no change.
With inflammation issues in my body, reactions to simple foods, now no alcohol or coffee or I suffer severe side effects…choosing whether or not to have the vaccine is a MASSIVE decision.
To add insult to injury with some saying I’m selfish, is this fair.
I’m very confused, conflicted and scared what to do.
On the one hand I’m told I should be protected as I’ve had covid and on the other not. I have no idea what to do. I *have to think of myself in this situation, I have a toddler daughter to care for and am basically just trying to survive each day at this point.

Am I still being selfish and should be *Forced to have vaccinations and now all three of them??

What would you do?

Not sure if a trick question, but obviously seek medical advice, if they deem the risk of the vaccination to be higher than the risk of being reinfected by covid again (surely a scary prospect) then they would do you a medical exemption; the same as anyone who has a genuine concern about whether the vaccine would be harmful given their health status.

*130 on resting not testing

[quote JanisMoplin]@Nsmum14 DS had Covid in August and now has what looks v much like Omicron. I am not a big believer in natural immunity or LFTs any more. Luckily it appears to be mild.[/quote]
Yes natural immunity is the worst kind of immunity.

I don't think many give 2 hoots about anyone but themselves. They are so wrapped up in their conspiracy theories that they can't see the wood from the trees.

They are not going to harm me because they give me Covid. I am boosted so should be fine.

They will hurt me because they put unnecessary pressure on the NHS, they could hurt me because I can't access treatment for another illness or injury.

They will hurt my mental health if we need to lockdown again.

But even all of that I can take.

What I can't take is what they are doing to the kids.

Their education, their mental health and their childhoods. L That is completely and utterly unforgiveable. I am astounded at the disregard these people have for the kids.

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

Did you not see the photos of the anti-vaxxer brigade out in force in London yesterday, protesting? No social distancing or mask wearing. And a big group from what you could see. And that lot will then have been using public transport to get home. Shocking.

Many of them are vaccinated - they were protesting against vaccine passports not vaccines. Hth

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

Do your kids go to school? Does your partner go to work?

My kids go to school and college. My partner works from home. My partner is vaccinated, my oldest child has had one vaccination and will have his second after Xmas.

So you could catch it from them ?

I know of a well educated person that thinks it’s all a hoax still.

Yep. Very much believe that the unvaxxed should get medical help, just as anyone else who puts their own health at risk should. Less and less sure that they should get to have any fun, since their choices are damaging other people’s ability to live normally. So vaccine passports for pubs, theatres, cafes…

@Dodie66

A lot of,people I know that haven’t had the vaccine are a lot more careful than people that have had it. Unvaccinated they wear masks, don’t mix much and avoid getting near people, sanitise the shopping etc. people that have been vaccinated tend to go out as normal, don’t wear masks and mix a lot with friends and go to events. Who is doing the most spreading? The ones unvaccinated who take more precautions or the vaccinated who think they are protected and can do what they like?

You can only speak for the people you know. I have now blocked a couple people I know who are evangelical anti-vaxers on social media who have never worn masks, won't test (apart from when they wanted to fly but still refused to wear masks on the flight) , and mixed with multiple households during lockdown. But i can't say off the back of that that all unvaccinated people behave in that way, any more than you can generalise that they are all ultra cautious.

@Inthelivingyears vaccinations have been found overall to be beneficial for long covid symptoms - many reporting a lessening of symptoms. Seek medical advice obviously, but vaccinations are not going to give you any more Covid. They are just triggering your bodies response to Covid - which is very different. Do you get what I mean?

@Libertybauble

‘Totally agree op, and if we lock down again I'm going to get increasing angry with those who are too pig-headed to get their jab’

I am triple vaxed but people like you scare me. Watching the mob’s hatred and venom grow towards people who have chosen not to get this particular vaccination - as is their right - is truly disturbing. Give it time and let the media continue to whip up hatred towards unvaccinated people and watch the bloodlust grow. It won’t be long before an unvaccinated person is assaulted in my view. They’ll be easily identifiable by that point as they’ll probably have to wear some kind of badge, to keep everyone ‘safe’.

It’s disgusting and I want absolutely no part in it. And yes, I do understand the pressures on the NHS. I also understand history and know that the hatred I’m seeing directed at a particular group of people never ends well for those people. Horrible to watch it unfold.

I’ve seen a number of posts like this creeping in. Alluding that the anti-vaxxed are comparable to one of the worst atrocities of recent European history is, IMO, a vile argument to trot out.

The bottom line is that ICU beds are more likely to be taken up by those who are not vaccinated. And that further mutations are more likely to evolve if not vaccinated. And so this continuous cycle will go on and on.

The unvaxxed have the right to their choice - but should accept that that choice could come with consequences. That’s the whole point of making a choice - weighing up the pros and cons.

DS has been the subject of verbal abuse for continuing to wear a mask (in his uni city) throughout, when many chose not to.

I don't believe that the great unvaccinated are likely to be more careful, generally. Surely by their very nature, they are more likely to be risk-takers and (petty) law-breakers? The ones who voted BREXIT...

I think the situation is a very complex one and I’m genuinely scared by the oversimplistic vilification of certain groups within society.

Unfortunately it happens time and time again throughout history in society and almost inevitably leads from verbal abuse to physical attacks to murder. I suspect it won’t belong before we see an attack on someone because of their vaccination status, mobs burning businesses etc probably followed by calls for segregation of the unclean. Excluding them from the economy, society.

In situations where people feel helpless, where things are out of control people always look for someone to blame and control When in reality the situation has arisen from a complex interaction of events and events largely have to play out.

The more people try to force their view the more people hold fast to their beliefs, this is especially true where people are used to holding non-mainstream views. Maybe if we were generally more accepting of alternative views there would be less people who feel alienated. martyrs aren’t limited to the Middle Ages.

I chose to be vaccinated/boostered. My personal experience suggests the science we are presented with about the vaccines is incomplete. I don’t think it is the panacea people want it to be. It’s just one thing to stop this virus. Keeping yourself healthy, fit, good hygiene, limiting mixing etc is just as important

@Benjispruce5

I know of a well educated person that thinks it’s all a hoax still.

There are a LOT of people who think this. Someone on twitter replied to me saying ‘the so called pandemic’…

@CherryBlossomAutumn

“Yes natural immunity is the worst kind of immunity.”

Seems to be working out ok for them in SA.

Who is doing the most spreading? The ones unvaccinated who take more precautions or the vaccinated who think they are protected and can do what they like?

This is a silly comparison as you're comparing extremes.

The people most likely to do the 'most spreading' are those who are unvaccinated and not being cautious.

This is anecdotal not statistical but everyone I know who is anti vax is also anti mask, anti lockdown, anti restrictions etc.

It's a silly question to say who is worse, well behaved unvaccinated people or badly behaved vaccinated people. It's a flawed premise due to the complete bias.

@WonderfulYou I get that if you have never had covid there is a chance you may end up very ill with it. A small one, but a chance nevertheless.
But many many unvaccinated people will have had covid, survived it, and decided not to have the vaccination at the present time, for reasons that make sense to them.
Re the little info sheet you have attached, different sources say different things about natural immunity vs vaccine immunity. Some say it is superior. I still can't see how people who have survived covid but have not been vaccinated are part of the problem.

@ChequerBoard

We don't have anywhere near 90% of the population vaccinated though.

Just under 47M have received a second dose of vaccine out of a uk population of 67M.

If you subtract a very generous 10M to account for children under 12 that as yet cannot be vaccinated, then we actually have 70% of the population vaccinated with two doses.

Yes we do now according to the link I posted. Average is 90% of those eligible by age and have been offered the vaccine, are fully vaccinated. You are forgetting that most under18s are only just now being offered their second dose. The BBC is also reporting 89% one dose, 82% two doses with a caption that not all over 12s are eligible for second dose or booster as of yet.

I subtracted 8.3m even though statists shows 8.8m children are under age 12.

If we'd all refused the vaccine, we'd still all be locked down now. I wish the government would have the balls to bring in vaccine passports. My brother lives in a country where you need a vaccine passport to do anything, except shop for food, consequently vaccination rates are 98 per cent and covid cases extremely low

@OMG12 No I don’t think you are right at all. It’s healthy and fine to say - unvaccinated people are part of the problem. It’s some of the anti Vaxxers and anti maskers who are aggressive, violent and sending death threats. Have you seen America? Shop staff being physically attacked for asking someone to wear a mask. On twitter it is the anti Vaxxers who are saying ‘rise up and overthrow those oppressing you’ as if it is a war.

We need to be very vigilant and question the anti vax movement - it is driven by a violent far right agenda.

Never seen someone being attacked for not wearing a mask!

@orinocosfavoritecake

Yep. Very much believe that the unvaxxed should get medical help, just as anyone else who puts their own health at risk should. Less and less sure that they should get to have any fun, since their choices are damaging other people’s ability to live normally. So vaccine passports for pubs, theatres, cafes…

Recent Imperial report shows that two vaccines only offers 0-20% protection against symptomatic infection against omicron. Vaccine passports make no sense - they should require testing for all if they’re trying to reduce the risk in certain places. It’s not about ‘stopping people from having fun’

Vaccine side effects are being brushed under carpet and nobody knows what effect so many doses of vaccines can have so close together. Over 90% adults in UK have been vaccinated. It’s a huge number and if that is not enough then nothing will. I’ve had my first two doses, but will avoid any boosters. It makes no sense. There are treatments for Covid at early stages, yet that has also not made any headlines. And the fact that these are now given to 5 year olds is completely insane.
Having said that I’m not antivax and my kids have had all their routine vaccines.

The ones that I know who are unvaccinated are not not anti vaxers just people worried or scared of having the vaccine. If everybody took the same precautions with masks, social distancing etc we wouldn’t be in this situation of blaming people for the state we are in

@Derbee

I think some of them genuinely (wrongly) believe that there are lots of fully vaccinated patients in ICU.

If you have a major operation, it's not at all uncommon to spend 24 or 48 hours in ICU for the additional attention. I'd expect most of the people in ICU to be fully-vaccinated.

If however, we are talking about people in ICU BECAUSE of Covid rather than WITH Covid, then I would expect your statement to be true. It's part of what is causing people to question health statements, a Covid patient might be in ICU for a fortnight, whereas, that bed might otherwise be used for seven major surgery patients, so one C-19 patient bed blocks seven non-C-19 patients.

Carelessness with language is causing confusion with seemingly contradictory health stats: 10% of Covid deaths being unvaccinated, unvaccinated ICU use requiring seven times as many beds.

You can't spin for a long-haul issue and JVT suggests 8 years for society and medicine to fully adapt to Covid.

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

DS has been the subject of verbal abuse for continuing to wear a mask (in his uni city) throughout, when many chose not to.

I don't believe that the great unvaccinated are likely to be more careful, generally. Surely by their very nature, they are more likely to be risk-takers and (petty) law-breakers? The ones who voted BREXIT...

This post has to be a joke . Do people really think like this? Bonkers.