Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

I really don’t think anti-vaxxers are bothered about shagging other people’s wives - they’d probably applaud it.

We have some on this thread saying that the unvaccinated are noble selfless people being terribly cautious, and the other half trumpeting about the protests and how they’ve not been reported. I can’t see that the latter group gives a flying wotsit about infecting anybody.

And as for those who say the vaccine is untested - if you land up in hospital, will you decline a brand-new antiviral drug? Perhaps a couple of leeches and a bit of chloroform in a rag is more your style?

Needle phobia? Yeah, we all just lurrrrve needles. Again, you’re in hospital and you’d refuse any intravenous treatment? Well, you see, I just don’t believe you.

@Toastmost A trick question? Again, not in the same situation.

My doctor believes I should wait, but to give an exemption is incredibly difficult and they are often pressured not to do this.

The bottom line is that ICU beds are more likely to be taken up by those who are not vaccinated.

Please see my previous link to ICNARC data irt critical care beds - 48% are unvaccinated.

I really think posts like this need to start being deleted for misinformation. They’re stirring up resentment and hatred.

I am very pro vaccine. DH and I have had all three of ours. Our three DDs (aged 26, 23 and 19) are all double jabbed and at least the eldest two now have their boosters booked for this coming Tuesday. I am hoping that DD3 (currently still away at uni and writing her final essays for this term) has been able to book hers.

I am still very anti another lockdown though. I appreciate that I will have little choice on stuff that is closed (though I will still see my elderly and disabled mother). The thought is just utterly depressing, and the government haven't yet indicated whether or not they will bring back furlough (or any other form of financial support). Nor have they said whether they are even able to bring it back.

Yes, people who remain unvaccinated without a sound medical reason are part of the problem (something like 80% if ICU Covid cases are unvaccinated). Something needs to be done there, but I don't know what. Covid passes are a start perhaps and I have no objection to them

Lockdowns are miserable and unpalatable. They just are!

I also think it’s totally OK to feel smug or proud of ourselves if we have been vaccinated. We really are saving lives, mostly ours but also the NHS from being totally decimated. Why not?!

I’d never bully anyone for not having a vaccine. I definitely in favor of personal choice, and addressing fears. However when one of my friends proudly said she hadn’t got the vaccine and implied that I was an idiot, I told her exactly what I thought about it!

I'm double jabbed but am starting to feel like we will never get out of this no matter how many jabs we have. There will always be variants and we will be coerced into jab after jab, while still having to have restrictions and lockdowns.
A couple of my family members haven't had jabs but I don't consider them anti vax. They are just absolutely terrified of the potential adverse effects (Lisa Shaw death, myocarditis etc). I don't judge them as it's valid to have fears.

Needle phobia? Yeah, we all just lurrrrve needles. Again, you’re in hospital and you’d refuse any intravenous treatment? Well, you see, I just don’t believe you

Some refuse treatment, yes. I have done in the past.

To answer the OP: no, they don’t see themselves as part of the problem, because they are selfish and largely stupid.

They ARE the problem and I hope we make the unvaccinated lock down soon. Anything else is a fucking insulting joke to all those key workers out there putting themselves at risk day by day.

They should bring in covid passports

@Blinky21

If we'd all refused the vaccine, we'd still all be locked down now. I wish the government would have the balls to bring in vaccine passports. My brother lives in a country where you need a vaccine passport to do anything, except shop for food, consequently vaccination rates are 98 per cent and covid cases extremely low

Many countries in Europe have these restrictions and have seen huge surges in cases.

[quote bumbleymummy]@CherryBlossomAutumn

“Yes natural immunity is the worst kind of immunity.”

Seems to be working out ok for them in SA.[/quote]
That wasn’t by choice though. The first vaccines were not as effective for their Covid variant so they’ve had a late start. SA has been vaccinating though and have ordered an additional 43 million vaccine doses. No one is deliberately choosing to let people die of Covid as part of getting towards herd immunity.

@Theworldisfullofgs

Stellf did you consider if it could have been worse without the vaccine?

Exactly! My DH has had three primary doses (CEV) and just had three nights in hospital with COVID - I cannot tell you how relieved I am that he had his vaccines.

I had my 2 plus booster and also have COVID - I have asthma and have been dreading catching COVID - I don’t feel great but it could be much worse.

@CherryBlossomAutumn Yes I *get what you mean

Where have you seen that the majority are improving with the vaccine? Are you part of the forums of millions suffering or those who have become worse after the vaccine, their covid symptoms worsening? Or perhaps the thousands now joining the forums after developing symptoms v similar to long covid ones *After having the vaccine, having not had covid previously and being well?
This is a very real thing and the reason why I’m frightened. I cannot go back to where I was or get worse, I just can’t.

@bumbleymummy

The bottom line is that ICU beds are more likely to be taken up by those who are not vaccinated.

Please see my previous link to ICNARC data irt critical care beds - 48% are unvaccinated.

I really think posts like this need to start being deleted for misinformation. They’re stirring up resentment and hatred.

Our local hospital said recently on Anglia news that 80% of the Covid admissions which required ICU were unvaccinated.

@Somebodylikeyew

To answer the OP: no, they don’t see themselves as part of the problem, because they are selfish and largely stupid.

They ARE the problem and I hope we make the unvaccinated lock down soon. Anything else is a fucking insulting joke to all those key workers out there putting themselves at risk day by day.

So I guess I'll have to be locked down them as I'm double jabbed rather than triple jabbed. I'm not having a booster as I'm still unwell from my second jab in July and struggling to manage the side effects. Selfish and stupid me. People should be allowed to decide what they will allow to be injected into their bodies. I'd hate to think I couldn't participate in society due to me having adversely reacted to the jab, therefore not taking another one.

[quote Inthelivingyears]@Toastmost A trick question? Again, not in the same situation.

My doctor believes I should wait, but to give an exemption is incredibly difficult and they are often pressured not to do this.[/quote]
Then wait and take an LFT if you want to go to a mass gathering. If the doctor genuinely believes it to be a risk yet won't give an exemption, that's a doctor problem.

If it comes to that, I am ok with having vaccine passports AND doing LFTs. Since people can't shut up about vaxxed people transmitting it just as much as the unvaxxed ( They don't actually).

Oh yes, I did forget to mention that category of people who have had Covid. However, in the U.K. Covid survivors are still being asked to get vaccinated as well because the virus mutates quickly and the vaccine being an mRNA vaccine will boost immunity moreso than the natural immune response does. As seen in people catching Covid multiple times and often having worse symptoms during the later infections than when they first had it.

@EmpressCixi Do you have any evidence for your statement that symptoms are more serious following reinfection?

Everything I have read points to the opposite - that immunity acquired through infection is likely broader (i.e. your cells will be more likely to recognise mutations, having being exposed to the entirety of the virus vs just the spike protein as with the vaccine) and equally if not more durable. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34899762/

Why are booster shots necessary if the immunity produced from the existing crop of vaccines is stable, durable, and sufficiently broad to recognise variants?

answer the OP: no, they don’t see themselves as part of the problem, because they are selfish and largely stupid.

They ARE the problem and I hope we make the unvaccinated lock down soon. Anything else is a fucking insulting joke to all those key workers out there putting themselves at risk day by day.

I agree. Selfish and beyond reasoning with

@emuloc There is actual research into this, Brexit voters more likely to NOT get vaccinated than Remain voters.

Polling done at the time showed brexit voters had less qualifications and far less likely to be income tax payers.

But people are entitled to have their beliefs and not get vaccinated, should they die, that is just natural selection at work.

Totally agree with everything smiley said

@Hellolittlestar
nobody knows what effect so many doses of vaccines can have so close together

? Do you have children? I presume not because no parent could think this. Have you even seen the vaccination schedule for infants and children? Multiple vaccinations every few months for years. We know for a fact that it is safe to give repeat vaccines “so close together”.

@EmpressCixi I’m not talking about ‘letting people die to achieve herd immunity’ I’m saying that immunity after infection (~70% in SA) is holding up well against omicron so it really isn’t ‘the worst’.

Many countries in Europe have these restrictions and have seen huge surges in cases.
They have recently but they have kept Covid under far better control than England, which has had more deaths and hospitalizations than any other European country in the last 3-4 months. So restrictions did and do work. However I think we have to reframe it - we all have to change a bit that’s all. Masks on public transport isn’t a restriction, it’s just bloody common sense! We have to do this for the next couple of years.

Ventilation of buildings is also what we have to do, forever really. That’s not restrictions. It’s again, common sense management.

We cannot vaccinate our way of a pandemic. We have to manage it too, long term, consistently.

...and is if to prove my point, this gets posted.

Why are booster shots necessary if the immunity produced from the existing crop of vaccines is stable, durable, and sufficiently broad to recognise variants?