What does a ‘major incident’ in London mean?

[Fivemoreminutes1]

Sadiq has declared a major incident in London regarding the surge in cases, but what does it mean for those who live/work/visit London in the next few days?

@lightisnotwhite

Why aren’t antibody tests more available? Even if you had to pay a bit.

They are available everywhere @Lightisnotwhite, what do you mean?

I got myself one way back Sept 2020

The Nightingales aren't "hospitals" in the same way as proper hospitals though. In the worst case scenario they are basically there to warehouse the dying during the time between when they are too ill to be at home until the time they die. There's not much treatment that can happen there other than supplying oxygen, for as long as oxygen supplies are available. Even a chef or a hotel receptionist can put an oxygen mask onto the face of someone dying and give them a bit of compassion. It's not like a qualified nurse could actually save their lives by the time things are so bad that the nightingales are actually needed at full capacity.

@vickyp0llard the poster didn't say they were thick and ignorant.

Two of the people who I know who have refused vaccination have good academic qualifications but unfortunately they are in a certain section of society who think they can logically work out everything even if it isn't in the areas they studied in. The trolls and others who spread misinformation have done a good job on them.

The other people I know are religious. What is worse I know people who are exactly the same sect/denomination but worship in different places who think standard healthcare including vaccinations are the best things that their God has made.

Slightly different spin on this. We are SW London, Surrey borders. DH and I were boostered three weeks ago (very efficient service), dd was bolstered about two weeks ago (slightly vulnerable), ds 26 was boostered yesterday. There is a walk-in up the road from us for 18-40s. There are more walk ins in London. Very little excuse for anyone to be unvaccinated.

DH goes up to London daily on public transport; dd is teaching and has been sent home for a day twice this half term pending a PCR test both of which have been -ve.

I think we must not forget that Sadiq along with local NHS leaders is left. Some of this is about politics rather than covid and also Boris's dishonourable beha iour that has understandably brought out the worst from the left. Whilst Boris deserves it, the public does not deserve to be used as covid collateral by the left

I wonder if anyone k owns how many NHS staff in London are antivax because presumably that is causing some or a significant percentage take of the staffing problems.

@RoseAndRose

Quite a lot of hospital beds are inhabited by people who are not unwell and that is the problem

Very true and that needs to be fixed by improving social care

Why would you work in social care if you can make more and have regular hours working in an Amazon Warehouse?

Why would you work in social care if you can make more and have regular hours working in an Amazon Warehouse?

No one would.

Paying better wages wouid make the most enormous difference.

The issue is in government accounting rules. Increasing the costs of social care doesn't get scored off the reduction in NHS costs of bed blockers, because the budgets are separate.

@RosesAndHellebores that would be impossible to find out until April when NHS staff have to be vaccinated.

All the NHS staff I know are vaccinated.

I'm was completely surprised by this as I found and am finding the anti-vaxxers I know aren't the people I expect.

@Namenic

I think it means hospitals may not be running their usual clinics and non emergency operations so that staff and capacity can be diverted to sick covid patients.

I'm in the south west and we stopped doing all this weeks ago!

I imagine it's cancelling all leave so everyone has to work unless isolating (all NHSers have stay home if case in the house so absence is a massive issue) and shipping patients out of county to other hospitals with capacity. Diverting ambulances etc.

You can't make retired people work and you can't open nightingales without a fully trained team. People are only admitted if they REALLY need it.

*@Fivemoreminutes1
Good for your Where did you get it from?
Normally cheap Superdrug charges nearly £70. Hardly accessible. Bupa charges the same.

I worked with young people throughout the pandemic. In a busy colleges and schools evetdau.. Must have been ridden with Covid. I’ve not been sick at all in the whole two year. I’m very keen to find if I’ve had it or not. NHS website says I’m not eligible.

Surely it makes sense to find out how many people have actually had it in the population or whether we are relying on vaccines.

@fuckoffwithyou

Maybe we should just do an opt in scheme for the NHS? Those who don't want the vaccine no longer pay taxes towards it and that allows the vaccinated to be treated in NHS hospitals and all the non vaccinated to go private which allow bodily autonomy. Happy days

Problem is due to NHS reforms from Blair onwards lots of private healthcare providers e.g. private hospitals, labs provide NHS care. Also GPs, dentists, opticians and are few other services were always private providers who provided NHS care due to the contracts they got.

So telling someone that they can only access private provision actually puts the more healthy vaccinated NHS patients at the same risk.

Plus there is no private emergency healthcare service.

France was one of the most vaccine refusing countries in the world. Vaccine passes soon changed that. Bookings shot right up.

In a society, rights come with responsibilities. People want to be free to show contempt for public health measures, they can go live off grid. Set up their own Covid soup societies.

But the government won't do anything unless and until the rest of the UK outside of London is at greater risk. London has, for several decades, been the country's cash cow - often, as is the case now, at the expense of Londoners. If a lockdown is needed (thanks to failure of the government to implement mitigations like masks, vaccine passes, and good ventilation) it will, as it has each bad wave, come too late for London.

I've seen comments elsewhere suggesting Londoners deserve this because of the anti vaxxers. Well the two thirds of Londoners who are vaccinated aren't to blame and didn't ask for the anti vaxxers.

I'm in London and know lots of people who are fully vaccinated yet have caught covid recently-they have mild symptoms & won't end up in hospital.That a THIRD of Londoners aren't vaccinated is a real worry-they are no doubt at huge risk & could end up in hospital. How do we persuade them to get vaccinated?

Declaring a state of emergency most importantly gets them access to special budgets and funds, as well as military support where needed. So it’s a good thing to do it early. Allows additional permissions to police too I believe.

I say let’s hope all those fuckwits marching in London give it to eachother!

the poster didn't say they were thick and ignorant.

No, they didn't, but I have seen this sort of statement many many times on MN so was just sort of adding my experience. The people I know are similar to your situation - one is very smart but their area of expertise is not medicine. One is an actual doctor but is very religious and fell prey to the Illuminati/Queen's a Lizard conspiracies years ago, so no surprise on this one.

You see it on MN as if all antivaxxers are selfish or just can't be bothered to book an appointment. The ones I know genuinely think they will do themselves serious harm and shorten their lifespan by having it, they are quite prepared to be totally excluded from society for their beliefs (and think I should too, I haven't told them I've been vaccinated). Westboro Baptist Church also believed they were doing the right thing by picketing soldier's funerals and holding up those awful signs, and they thought that everyone who wanted to live a normal life was going to hell. I don't know what the right way is to deal with these sorts of beliefs, but ostracising them won't really do anything.

Problem is due to NHS reforms from Blair onwards lots of private healthcare providers e.g. private hospitals, labs provide NHS care.

Blair left a long legacy of damage across almost every aspect of society. The heirs to Blair - Cameron and co. simply continued in his footsteps.

@lightisnotwhite you should have downloaded the Zoe app.

I got my antibody test because I had the Zoe app

In fact I got PCR tests when I had odd symptoms - though I was negative to Covid - due to having the Zoe app.

I also do and have done the common cold survey since 2014. I was sent PCR tests for my entire household including most importantly my then 2 year old DD at a time when the UK government were refusing to give primary age and younger children PCR tests.

Basically because I'm willing and so is my household to be guinea pigs so enter data weekly and now daily I've been sent tests.

@happydappy2

I'm in London and know lots of people who are fully vaccinated yet have caught covid recently-they have mild symptoms & won't end up in hospital.That a THIRD of Londoners aren't vaccinated is a real worry-they are no doubt at huge risk & could end up in hospital. How do we persuade them to get vaccinated?

Vaccine passes (for shops, restaurants, etc) as in much of Europe and beyond would help.

Although given how critical the situation is now, it might be time to look at some of the emergency measures used - including, as has already happened in other countries, lockdown for the unvaccinated.

The unvaccinated currently pose a major public health and national security risk. They are not only more likely to spread Covid (studies strongly suggest vaccinations, whilst not totally preventing, do reduce transmission) - but they will fill the hospitals... Meaning non Covid patients - cancer, meningitis, knocked down by a car, etc won't get timely treatment. Plus the knock on effect to other essential services due to mass staff sickness.

@vickyp0llard we are probably in the same boat in how do you get people like that to see that they are being and have been misled.

The only information I've found on it was written before the pandemic hit. They basically said ask them logical questions in a kind way but none of them said how you deal with listening to the hours of crap they sprout in return.

In my case because one of them I engaged started comparing countries I managed to shut him up by pointing out that he needed to show more empathy to the people in the room who still had relations, including close ones, in those countries.

@ Fruitbatdancer No you don't as you don't know which "healthy" ones will have an immune system that overreacts so they take up a hospital bed.

Or perhaps we need covid specific hospitals/centres and leave the NHS to deal with all other illnesses/operations. We need to differentiate between covid patients and general patients.

@RedWingBoots

Interesting. Not really heard about that.

It would make more sense to get people to anti body tests though so they could save on vaccinating people unnecessarily and get the unvaccinated back into work.

I think I'm at the stage of comparing anti vaxxers with people who refuse to wear seat belts.
They are free to not wear seat belts / not get vaccinated but there are consequences to it. It wouldn't be right to deny them medical treatment and you can't fine them, but if you are unvaccinated you are putting wider society at risk. Therefore, I think that keeping the unvaccinated away from wider society may be the way to go.

@happydappy2

Or perhaps we need covid specific hospitals/centres and leave the NHS to deal with all other illnesses/operations. We need to differentiate between covid patients and general patients.

That's totally ridiculous and impractical.

People who get very ill with Covid may need help from many different specialists. It's a disease that affects multiple organs and can leave people with serious health conditions afterwards.

@Akire

I suspect public mood will change a lot of hospitals are over run by un jabbed. Most people are so be it to personal choices but not when it’s your loved ones dying in carpark of heart attack or children with broken bones being left for days because no one is able treat them. In that situation I imagine things would turn nasty quickly. At moment your friends being unvaccinated don’t affect your day to day life.

I agree. This is when the penny will drop.

I am genuinely worried at the thought of anyone in my family having a serious accident or a bad diagnosis over the next few months.

France really is an excellent example to learn from. One of the most vaccine refusing countries in the world now has a high take-up rate.

Vaccine passes, plus a no nonsense 'You need to do this and that's it" attitude.

People tend to respect that far more than the wishy washy "pretty please maybe please think about it" weak half hearted approach.