Page 10 | Why is it acceptable to be angry with people who don’t want the vaccine?

Wuishj · 2021-12-14T13:38:40+00:00

I’ve had both. I didn’t want them initially but after looking into it more, I decided to have them and think it’s the right thing. But I would never be angry, rude, dismissive of someone who didn’t want the vaccine. I’m finding these discussions very draining - they happen at work, among friends, on the news. Whatever happened to allowing people to decide for themselves as to whether they want to book an appointment and have a needle injected into them? Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people. I think if everyone backed off from blaming other people then they might find that more people DID end up having the vaccine. Rant over!

lockdownhasbrokenme · 14/12/2021 19:41

@Honeyhorse

They are face to face. I take an LFT before every group though. I’ll be suicidal if I can’t go to them anymore. I know it sounds like an exaggeration but it really isn’t, they’re my lifeline. Surely as mental health group there should be exceptions?

But sadly and as much as I genuinely feel for you and your struggles, the people running the group will have to consider not only your health and mental heath but their own health and mental health and that of every other member of the group. It could be a situation where other people feel unable to attend for the opposite reason as yourself or it could be that people decide the mental health benefits outweigh the health risks of a person/people being unvaccinated.

I wish you all the best, imo your case would fall into the category of those people I feel are harmed by the actions of the rabid anti vaxxers.

MakingTheBestOfIt · 14/12/2021 19:58

I have absolutely no anger for those who choose not to be vaccinated because they have phobias, mental health conditions or physical conditions that they are worried might be affected. I have no anger for those who have calculated their own personal risk level and decided against it based on that. I have no anger for people whose reasons not to get vaccinated are incomprehensible to me.

However, I have nothing but anger for the paranoid fuckwits who post shit like the attached screenshot all over my social media*. Who spread misinformation and paranoia and persuade others, who may have more to gain from vaccination than they do, not to protect themselves. Who accuse me of poisoning my children and assure me I’ll be dead/infertile/zombified within the next few months (always the next few, I’m still waiting…)

*not the worst example, but the first one I stumbled across

Why is it acceptable to be angry with people who don’t want the vaccine?

XenoBitch · 14/12/2021 19:59

But sadly and as much as I genuinely feel for you and your struggles, the people running the group will have to consider not only your health and mental heath but their own health and mental health and that of every other member of the group.
It could be a situation where other people feel unable to attend for the opposite reason as yourself or it could be that people decide the mental health benefits outweigh the health risks of a person/people being unvaccinated

There are phobia support groups... are you really suggesting that will come a point where the needle phobic members will no longer be allowed to go?

Support groups can be classed as care/treatment. Surely you are not suggesting that it would be appropriate to ban anyone not vaccinated from them?

lockdownhasbrokenme · 14/12/2021 20:11

@XenoBitch

*But sadly and as much as I genuinely feel for you and your struggles, the people running the group will have to consider not only your health and mental heath but their own health and mental health and that of every other member of the group. It could be a situation where other people feel unable to attend for the opposite reason as yourself or it could be that people decide the mental health benefits outweigh the health risks of a person/people being unvaccinated*

There are phobia support groups... are you really suggesting that will come a point where the needle phobic members will no longer be allowed to go?

Support groups can be classed as care/treatment. Surely you are not suggesting that it would be appropriate to ban anyone not vaccinated from them?

No what I am saying is that the group leaders have to consider the welfare and mental health of all people including themselves, and as sad as it is if several people's mental health/health are felt to be at risk due to vaccination decisions is it fair that one person's mental health/health is prioritised over what could be several people's mental health/health all of whom are suffering equally badly.

If as a group all members and leaders are happy to accept and take the health risks then fine if not then the group would have to try and find the best way forward for all.

XenoBitch · 14/12/2021 20:14

No what I am saying is that the group leaders have to consider the welfare and mental health of all people including themselves, and as sad as it is if several people's mental health/health are felt to be at risk due to vaccination decisions is it fair that one person's mental health/health is prioritised over what could be several people's mental health/health all of whom are suffering equally badly

If as a group all members and leaders are happy to accept and take the health risks then fine if not then the group would have to try and find the best way forward for all

The group members should not be privy to the other member's private information like vaccination status.

XenoBitch · 14/12/2021 20:15

I was going to a support group for people with mental health issues. We didn't know other people's vaccination status, or what MH conditions they had (unless they wanted to disclose it... some did).

lockdownhasbrokenme · 14/12/2021 20:23

@XenoBitch

I was going to a support group for people with mental health issues. We didn't know other people's vaccination status, or what MH conditions they had (unless they wanted to disclose it... some did).

Seeing as vaccine passports have just passed this evening in the House of Commons as has NHS staff needing to be vaccinated this could become an issue.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 14/12/2021 20:27

@TheDailyCarbunkle and could you please share your methodology? Thanks!

Forgothowmuchlhatehomeschoolin · 14/12/2021 20:29

Totally agree op.
I am triple jabbed now but fully respectful of people who have decided not to have it but if l say to anyone l get shot down as if l am the anti vaxxer.
Not 100% they work myself but have had them all!

riveted1 · 14/12/2021 20:30

The narrative around 'anti-vaxxers' has actually been very cleverly done. There have been a lot of articles about false information and conspiracy theories - and those do exist - but in actual fact the amount of false information out there is very minimal (based on actual detailed research I've done around this for a related subject). It's a tactic that I haven't come across before, which is to write concerned pieces about how awful it is that so much wrong information is being spread around and how terrible it is that there are so many misinformed 'anti-vaxxers.' It's very effective because it immediately discredits anyone who has totally legitimate questions or concerns about the vaccine before they even open their mouths. It stops all discussion and debate - you just get the vaccine or you're awful. Simple as that

@TheDailyCarbunkle I don't understand this post at all

No someone who doesn't want to be vaccinated isn't an "anti-vaxxer". Neither is someone who asks genuine questions, talks about side effects, questions efficacy etc.

But misinformation is everywhere - there's large numbers of groups promoting anti-vaccine claims not backed by robust evidence (ie false claims about safety or efficacy). It's all over social media and places like MN.

Just off the top of my head, that vaccinated people get illler with coronavirus than non-vaccinated, that vaccinated people transmit more, that they're not safe in pregnancy, that it's safer for non-vulnerable people to not be vaccinated, that they make no difference to infection or transmission etc. These are all claims I've seen in the last couple of weeks on MN alone.

Barbie222 · 14/12/2021 20:30

I don't think it's acceptable to be angry with individuals. I think it's perfectly ok to feel annoyed that all of society is having to take additional measures which no one wants to do, because we don't have enough money and capacity to treat all the people who need hospital stays right now.

If we had plenty of NHS available, I wouldn't be bothered about people being unvaccinated. If as a nation we had plenty of resistance to the vaccine, I wouldn't worry that the NHS is likely to be overwhelmed.

But we don't and we don't, and if more people took the vaccine, we'd all better protect the people who can't have it, and we wouldn't be farting around on the edge of another lockdown.

And until we vaccinate enough people, including kids, like we did for smallpox and polio, that's what's going to keep happening.

XenoBitch · 14/12/2021 20:30

Seeing as vaccine passports have just passed this evening in the House of Commons as has NHS staff needing to be vaccinated this could become an issue

A negative LFT is still acceptable, yes? And isn't it just for clubs etc?
I don't see too much of a problem with that. As long as it is easy enough to prove, as some members do not have a smart phone or internet access.

riveted1 · 14/12/2021 20:32

based on actual detailed research I've done around this for a related subject

Yes also interested in methods - this is qualitiative research? How were sources selected in non-biased way? Did you conduct focus groups etc? How were findings coded & analysed? How many people were involved & what are plans for dissemination of findings?

riveted1 · 14/12/2021 20:32

^ @TheDailyCarbunkle

Villanelle17 · 14/12/2021 20:35

I agree. I've had both Pfizers, but had an awful reaction to my 2nd vaccine and still not the same. I'm now expected to get a Pfizer booster, which I am very anxious about. Not sure what I'll do.
People have a right to not have a vaccine and who knows how many boosters we'll have to get.
It's not so easy when you have long term side effects from a vaccine, so people should be more understanding.
It's not like the vaccine stops you getting covid and passing it on anyway. Yes I know it reduces it, but still, you can get covid off someone who's fully vaccinated

lockdownhasbrokenme · 14/12/2021 20:35

@XenoBitch

Seeing as vaccine passports have just passed this evening in the House of Commons as has NHS staff needing to be vaccinated this could become an issue

A negative LFT is still acceptable, yes? And isn't it just for clubs etc?
I don't see too much of a problem with that. As long as it is easy enough to prove, as some members do not have a smart phone or internet access.

Not always.

lockdownhasbrokenme · 14/12/2021 20:37

The aim is for this to happen at all their concerts.

BringBackThinEyebrows · 14/12/2021 20:40

That screenshot says New York. Is there any talk of something similar for the UK?

Plaiceandchips · 14/12/2021 20:40

But vaccinated people can spread the virus too? So why the animosity against the unvaxxed? Surely if you’re vaccinated then you’re protected?

XenoBitch · 14/12/2021 20:44

@lockdownhasbrokenme

The aim is for this to happen at all their concerts.

That says New York though... so not a UK thing. Nothing to do wit House of Commons.

Saying that, a club night event page on my FB have announced that you need a Covid pass for this weekend's event.. have stated it is just fully jabbed or Covid recovered allowed in. Several people pointed out that the Covid pass includes negative LFTs, and the page has been deleting those comments.
I don't have a Covid/NHS app thing so I have no idea how these things work. Surely it does not say how you are clear to enter a venue.

mincepiesallround · 14/12/2021 20:46

@Plaiceandchips Not protected against there not being an ICU bed available after you have, say, a car crash because they’re all full of unvaccinated covid patients.

lockdownhasbrokenme · 14/12/2021 20:48

@BringBackThinEyebrows

That screenshot says New York. Is there any talk of something similar for the UK?

The reply is from someone who runs fan groups and who is close to the band.

UpsilonPi · 14/12/2021 20:55

@TheDailyCarbunkle

I'm not vaccinated. I'm happy to talk about why but IME there isn't really any point because no one wants to actually hear it.

In my experience, I think some people get annoyed at unvaccinated people because they present the alternative, the possibility of saying no and they don't like that. They'd rather everyone just went ahead so that they didn't have to question their decision. I am totally sympathetic to that issue and I don't generally discuss vaccination with people like that as they don't seem able to really discuss it. They want to call me stupid and selfish because that allows them not to engage with the reality of it and I'm ok with that.

Other people really believe that if everyone were vaccinated then the virus would disappear or something. That viewpoint is impervious to reality so there's no point in engaging with them. They want to a bad guy and the unvaccinated are it. I think that's easier for them than to realise you can't really 'fight' a virus and a lot of what's been done over the last year has pointlessly damaged everyone for no real result.

There are others who know that vaccination isn't the magic cure it's made out to be but they feel playing along with the illusion that it is is in everyone's best interest. It's a sort of patronising, parental viewpoint. People like that bother me the most tbh. They definitely know better but they believe that being truthful would 'confuse people' (ie people stupider than they are) and so everyone must repeat the 'vaccination is great' line over and over.

I think a lot of people will look back on their attitudes to vaccination and wonder what on earth happened to them. Their responses are understandable given how they've been treated so they don't necessarily surprise me but I don't know if they'll be so forgiving of themselves. I'm sure there will be a lot of self-flagellating Guardian articles in years to come. I look forward to them with bated breath.

I am trying to work out which of your vaccinated types I am from this. I am thinking maybe Type C. Could you do it as a quiz?

JuergenSchwarzwald · 14/12/2021 20:58

But the vast majority of people have had the vaccine and it's the endless bleeting of the minority unvaxxed (by choice

To be honest the only bleating I hear is from the vaccinated treating the unvaccinated as if they must have covid. See the estate agent thread. Oh and the person who said that refusing to be vaccinated was as bad as being racist or homophobic! I mean - really?

hamstersarse · 14/12/2021 20:58

It's mass hysteria. Literally.

Anyone with half a brain can see vaccinated people can get, spread and even die of Covid.

Yet still people see it as the only thing that can relieve their fears. Fears which have been over-cooked and manipulated, relentless propaganda terrifying people to believe they are going to die of a disease with an IFR of at 0.053% (estimation for Omicron)

And no-one seems to be talking about the possibility that Omicron actually mutated from vaccinated people.....oops.