Why is it acceptable to be angry with people who don’t want the vaccine?

[Wuishj]

I’ve had both. I didn’t want them initially but after looking into it more, I decided to have them and think it’s the right thing.

But I would never be angry, rude, dismissive of someone who didn’t want the vaccine. I’m finding these discussions very draining - they happen at work, among friends, on the news. Whatever happened to allowing people to decide for themselves as to whether they want to book an appointment and have a needle injected into them?

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people. I think if everyone backed off from blaming other people then they might find that more people DID end up having the vaccine.

Rant over!

Not being vaccinated doesn't put other people at risk on a personal level, it just makes you more likely to be very ill with covid so that when you use an ambulance and a hospital bed, someone else cannot have an ambulance when they have a heart attack, or a hospital bed when they have sepsis.

If you don’t get vaccinated and consequently get very ill with covid, you put others at risk of not getting adequate treatment for other health issues.

I couldn’t care less.
It’s a private matter and so divisive.

It isn't. Stay away from the angry ranters. Let them waste their hatred on something else.
The view that it is individual choice and everyone should have the right to decide what's right for them whether that's having the vaccine or not, is not an extreme viewpoint it's actually very moderate. It's a moderate position to take. However the mainstream media has turned things around and suddenly people with that view are seen as extremists. Those ranting on about you must do this / that and you must have your choice taken away. They're the extremists. Just keep that in perspective.

@lliitttlepiinkhouse

Getting vaccinated protects yourself, not other people.

If I have close contact with a vaccinated person and an unvaccinated person, it makes no difference to me because I'm vaccinated. I have taken the decision to protect myself from a potentially serious illness.

Not being vaccinated doesn't put other people at risk on a personal level, it just makes you more likely to be very ill with covid.

If other people don't want the vaccine, that's fine, I'm not arsed. Their choice. But they have to accept there may be things they are unwelcome at or events they can't attend without testing and reporting results. They might not be able to go on holidays to certain places. I'm sure when that realisation sets in more people will suddenly take the vaccine.

I think some people need to separate the vaccine and politics.

That's not true. it affects your chance of catching it (and therefore your chance of passing it on), as well as your chance of having a heavy viral load (and therefore passing it on). So being unvaccinated makes you more likely to spread it in both ways.

It also affects everyone because the unvaccinated are costing millions in medical bills, clogging up ICU beds and ensuring that others can't get essential treatment. They're closing down schools, making colleagues have to pick up the slack for them, and driving medical staff out of the profession with PTSD and burnout.

The decision to put your neighbours at risk, make them pick up the bill for you and then (on a population level) stop them getting cancer treatment IS POLITICAL.

@FflosFfantastig

It isn't. Stay away from the angry ranters. Let them waste their hatred on something else. The view that it is individual choice and everyone should have the right to decide what's right for them whether that's having the vaccine or not, is not an extreme viewpoint it's actually very moderate. It's a moderate position to take. However the mainstream media has turned things around and suddenly people with that view are seen as extremists. Those ranting on about you must do this / that and you must have your choice taken away. They're the extremists. Just keep that in perspective.

Bingo.

Not being vaccinated doesn't put other people at risk on a personal level, it just makes you more likely to be very ill with covid

Well, if you aren’t vaccinated you’re statically more likely to spread the virus compared to someone who is vaccinated. That’s been proven - it reduces transmission and prevents from serious illness.

So yes, if you have Covid and are unvaccinated, chances are you could spread it more than those vaccinated.

I'm not vaccinated. I'm happy to talk about why but IME there isn't really any point because no one wants to actually hear it.

In my experience, I think some people get annoyed at unvaccinated people because they present the alternative, the possibility of saying no and they don't like that. They'd rather everyone just went ahead so that they didn't have to question their decision. I am totally sympathetic to that issue and I don't generally discuss vaccination with people like that as they don't seem able to really discuss it. They want to call me stupid and selfish because that allows them not to engage with the reality of it and I'm ok with that.

Other people really believe that if everyone were vaccinated then the virus would disappear or something. That viewpoint is impervious to reality so there's no point in engaging with them. They want to a bad guy and the unvaccinated are it. I think that's easier for them than to realise you can't really 'fight' a virus and a lot of what's been done over the last year has pointlessly damaged everyone for no real result.

There are others who know that vaccination isn't the magic cure it's made out to be but they feel playing along with the illusion that it is is in everyone's best interest. It's a sort of patronising, parental viewpoint. People like that bother me the most tbh. They definitely know better but they believe that being truthful would 'confuse people' (ie people stupider than they are) and so everyone must repeat the 'vaccination is great' line over and over.

I think a lot of people will look back on their attitudes to vaccination and wonder what on earth happened to them. Their responses are understandable given how they've been treated so they don't necessarily surprise me but I don't know if they'll be so forgiving of themselves. I'm sure there will be a lot of self-flagellating Guardian articles in years to come. I look forward to them with bated breath.

I don’t care what people do with their own bodies, and I don’t ask why. I do care that people ignore scientific advice.

If someone tries to give me a bullshit reason for not getting the vaccine and invade my brain with nonsensical and inaccurate information, I will call them out on it because it makes me angry, yes.

I made a post a short while ago about being unvaccinated.
I have a phobia of needles and medical procedures. I’m also scared of vaccines in general.
I haven’t been to the dentist in over 12 years, I’ve never had a smear test.
I find invasive treatments extremely triggering and needles are a part of that for me.
I’m trying to get help with this and have a counselling appointment on Friday. I don’t think I have a low IQ and I’m not selfish, I volunteer for a mental health charity, as well as having ASD myself.

I always try to be a good person, but I feel like I’m going to be ostracised from society because I can’t physically have the vaccine.
To be honest it’s starting to make me feel suicidal. If you need three jabs to be fully vaccinated currently, if and when the covid pass happens, I’ll be unable to participate in my mental health voluntary work or meet my friend for coffee and cake because I assume I won’t be allowed in.

Even if I manage to find the courage to have one vaccine, I won’t be able to have the other two until spring at least, the thought of having three close together makes me feel very unwell and mentally, I’m not sure how I’ll cope with that. Then possibly by the time I’ve had my third , if I do, then there might be a fourth and so on, I’ll be forever catching up and missing out on the only things that keep me going in the process I know it’s my own fault for being scared / phobic but I’m starting to feel extremely low about it all.

@FflosFfantastig

It isn't. Stay away from the angry ranters. Let them waste their hatred on something else. The view that it is individual choice and everyone should have the right to decide what's right for them whether that's having the vaccine or not, is not an extreme viewpoint it's actually very moderate. It's a moderate position to take. However the mainstream media has turned things around and suddenly people with that view are seen as extremists. Those ranting on about you must do this / that and you must have your choice taken away. They're the extremists. Just keep that in perspective.

I'd argue it is ok to be angry with the choices people make.

You can believe everyone should be able to make their own choice AND be annoyed when people make bad choices.

It's not one or the other.

Putting the rest of us at risk

But how are they putting you at risk? Either your vaccine works and you're "protected", or it doesn't in which case why would they need to have it to protect you? You had your vaccine/s to prevent you being seriously ill. Other people aren't responsible for your health, surely?

We are all being heavily punished for the unvaccinated. Restrictions, cancelled surgeries and appointments etc.

My friends dad can't get his triple bypass because the hospital can't guarantee an ICU bed for him afterwards due to unvaccinated covid patients.

It's time to heavily restrict the people who are unvaccinated by choice and let the rest of us get on with life.

@TheDailyCarbunkle superb post. Really good piece of analysis.

Mmm brrrrr “lower working memory”? What exactly are you trying to say? Because lower working memory is what it says. People who face a greater challenge with memory related tasks. I don’t think that is a particularly important quality in relation to reaching a decision on whether you vaccinate / wear a mask etc. I have working memory ( and processing) scores that put me in the bottom half of the population yet I am perfectly able to assess the available evidence, and their sources, apply my reasoning skills - which are in one of the highest percentiles of the population and reach the conclusion that getting vaccinated and wearing a mask are in the best interests of myself and those around me, and especially will relieve the pressure on the NHS where the HCPs are burnt out.

It may seem pedantic but if you have learning differences like dyslexia, dyspraxia etc., as 1 in no 10 of us do, the fact that too many people still confuse your struggles with memory and processing with you being thick is quite a big issue.

But yes the unvaccinated do tend to be short on expertise, critical thinking skills, assessing the source of information and other reasoning skills, especially being able to understand the difference between small numbers and large numbers, as well as empathy for others, particularly our HCPs

Because to me not being vaccinated shows either a selfish or ignorant side to a person's personality - both of which I find very unappealing.

@DynamiteFilledRadish

Putting the rest of us at risk

But how are they putting you at risk? Either your vaccine works and you're "protected", or it doesn't in which case why would they need to have it to protect you? You had your vaccine/s to prevent you being seriously ill. Other people aren't responsible for your health, surely?

This has already been explained in this thread. You can also find the answer to this with Google.Or maybe think it through yourself.

For example, a non-vaccinated person gets covid and is really ill....what happens next?

@TheDailyCarbunkle weren't you one of the posters pre-vaccination saying the solution is to just isolate the vulnerable from society and just carry on? To me it seems the tables have turned and now it is the unvaccinated who are being shut out.

Ah you're using the "unvaccinated thickos taking up a hospital bed" argument. That's been extensively covered but I am happy to reiterate my position. Unless you are going to start slinging insults at (to name but a few) overweight people, those who take part in extreme sports, smokers, drinkers, drug addicts and women who continue risky pregnancies, then you can't also decide that the filthy unvaxxed don't deserve hospital treatment.

The patronising rude responses do nothing to convince people. They just make you look as rabid as those you insult so viciously.

I'm currently unvaccinated as was worried about getting it while pregnant, and haven't had a good time to get it as DH works a lot and were I too have a bad reaction and be unwell for any amount of time he is need him home to take care of DC and DDogs. I desperately want it but am really annoyed with the amount of people that have made rude comments and the consistent nagging from people to get it.

All this anti vax bullshit is really starting to fuck me off now. I am not vaccinated. I am absolutely petrified of getting the vaccine but I'm also petrified of catching covid. You all seem to put anti vaxers in the same group as if were all severely stupid, selfish idiots. That's not the case. I complied with all lockdowns, I limited my social interactions when the lockdowns were lifted, I havent stepped foot in a pub or cinema, or club, I religiously wear a mask and still social distance. I wouldnt call myself selfish just because I'm not vaccinated.

I wasn't angry until Nov. I thought the 80% of us who had had the vax would carry the rest..Then I was told my essential surgery will happen only after May 2022 if at all. Yes yes NHS has always been overextended blah blah. This year it is worse.

@DynamiteFilledRadish

Ah you're using the "unvaccinated thickos taking up a hospital bed" argument. That's been extensively covered but I am happy to reiterate my position. Unless you are going to start slinging insults at (to name but a few) overweight people, those who take part in extreme sports, smokers, drinkers, drug addicts and women who continue risky pregnancies, then you can't also decide that the filthy unvaxxed don't deserve hospital treatment.

The patronising rude responses do nothing to convince people. They just make you look as rabid as those you insult so viciously.

I don't make these comments but just wanted to say that those other groups aren't causing the NHS to literally stop functioning and run out of beds. They are manageable

Personally, I don't care.
I would NEVER ask anyone if they've had a vaccine.
It's none of my business what others do.