Good news re Omicron

[Tryingtryingandtrying]

twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1468985784338366468?t=0RA5_V7CWbGjhgxfNIDbAQ&s=19

All looking pretty positive.

@megustalacerveza

“Why should vaccinated people have the additional burden of providing a negative LFT every time? Their vaccination is equivalent, if not better, to a non-vaccinated person providing a negative test because LFTs aren't very reliable. You're essentially saying vaccinated people should have to go much further...why?!“

As I linked to above, it is nhs advice for vaccinated people to test before they go to a club anyway so no, not an additional burden.

We’ve just found out that two doses of the vaccine aren’t reliable protection against omicron so I don’t think you can argue that it’s ‘better’ than a negative lft (not that it’s a particularly good argument anyway). I think that everyone should have to go to the same effort - provide a negative test - to reduce the risk of spread as much as possible. You’re basically saying that vaccinated people should be exempt from testing even though they could be infected. That’s a bit silly.

Anyway, this is going in circles.

Even if we are to accept your ludicrous claim that stress causes more hospitalisations than alcohol

Erm. Never said that. I don't know whether it does or not. (Except obviously there's the massive link between stress and alcohol misuse). I suspect it would be an interesting topic of research.

What do you tihnk lockdowns, isolations, kids out of schools, obsessive vaccine agendas depriving people of body autonomy does for stress levels

Indeed. The stress and damage of lockdowns. Hence the importance of mitigations aimed at reducing the spread. Including vaccines, masks, and good ventilation.

In the future, we'll also have wider access to treatments, to add to our arsenal.

On a related note. Yes, children. The public health housing and homelessness emergency hugely negatively impacts on children. Insecure and temporary housing doesn't only cost the taxpayer dear. It also has major effect on the education and life chances of the many children affected.

Were you so outspoken pre 2019 about everyone taking a flu vaccine to protect HIV people or the extremely vulnerable?

Personally I've always done my best to protect others. I've long admired the civic minded attitude in East Asia - of wearing masks when sick out of courtesy to others.

I also pay every year to have my flu jab. Less out of altruism and more because I had it in my early 20s. Knocked me out for two weeks. I have no desire to lose several weeks of work unnecessarily. But it's a fantastic extra bonus that it helps the vulnerable.

Prof Eleanor Riley, professor of immunology and infectious disease at the University of Edinburgh, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme Omicron appeared to be so infectious that "you have to work on the basis that anyone you come into contact with has it".

She said if someone had a taken a lateral flow test and been negative for the virus "within the last few hours" then they could be a little more confident.

"I think Omicron is spreading so quickly that I think unless you are living like a hermit you are very likely to come across it in the next few weeks, I don't think anyone should be going around thinking they are not going to catch it, I think that situation has changed," she said.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59619224

She said if someone had a taken a lateral flow test and been negative for the virus "within the last few hours" then they could be a little more confident.

I hope megusta takes note!

@bumbleymummy

She said if someone had a taken a lateral flow test and been negative for the virus "within the last few hours" then they could be a little more confident.

I hope megusta takes note!

I didn't say about vaccine passports and omicron with my head stuck up my arse.

I find it frightening the degree to which people have become reliant on lateral flows almost psychologically. In the context of omicron that all goes out the window.

One of the problems with the booster program is that it hasn't reached out well to the elderly with mobility issues. So people who need carers in particular. We are now running into omicron.

Care home visits won't last the week because lateral flows won't be reliable enough because of how omicron changes the dynamic. They will pick up infections but the window in which you become infectious has shrunk considerably so the result is valid for a much shorter period.

There are massive implications for hospitals here too. Its not good news if you are waiting on elective surgery.

@bumbleymummy

She said if someone had a taken a lateral flow test and been negative for the virus "within the last few hours" then they could be a little more confident.

I hope megusta takes note!

Oh dear, here goes the black and white thinking again.

'A little more confident' in your mind means 'totally fine'.

Truly incredible.

@RedToothBrush exactly!!

Lateral flow tests are basically now less reliable than ever, and they weren't that reliable in the first place.

Testing is simply not sustainable. It's not that effective, it takes up time and resources, and it's hugely wasteful for people to be using that much plastic every day or two.

Thinking that a negative lateral flow test is somehow more reliable than being fully vaccinated is pure delusion. The gold standard would be everyone being fully vaccinated and having the necessary boosters, and then just dealing with the breakthough infections which WILL happen. Testing will become pretty much pointless - for travel, for nightclubs, for anything.

The vaccines are a leaky sieve themselves.

@megustalacerveza I have not stated that they would catch every case. I stated that they would catch more than none at all.

As stated on the nhs website, linked above, it is recommended that people test before going to crowded venues, even if they are vaccinated, so these are not additional tests. Do you think the NHS are ‘delusional’?
Thinking that just because someone is vaccinated that they can’t possibly be infected and should not need to test is far more delusional (and risky) in my opinion.

[quote bumbleymummy]@megustalacerveza I have not stated that they would catch every case. I stated that they would catch more than none at all.

As stated on the nhs website, linked above, it is recommended that people test before going to crowded venues, even if they are vaccinated, so these are not additional tests. Do you think the NHS are ‘delusional’?
Thinking that just because someone is vaccinated that they can’t possibly be infected and should not need to test is far more delusional (and risky) in my opinion.[/quote]
Yes, and being vaccinated is MORE reliable against getting infected than taking a test! Sure, LFTs are better than nothing. Sure, people can and should take them before mixing with others. But this is in ADDITION to the much more important precaution of being vaccinated, not instead of.

At this point I'm genuinely starting to think you're on a wind up.

Sure, LFTs are better than nothing. Sure, people can and should take them before mixing with others. But this is in ADDITION to the much more important precaution of being vaccinated, not instead of.

Finally! It took you a while but you got there in the end. My point from the start has been that vaccinated people should also have to test - not that they somehow unvaccinated themselves and take a test instead .

@bumbleymummy

Sure, LFTs are better than nothing. Sure, people can and should take them before mixing with others. But this is in ADDITION to the much more important precaution of being vaccinated, not instead of.

Finally! It took you a while but you got there in the end. My point from the start has been that vaccinated people should also have to test - not that they somehow unvaccinated themselves and take a test instead .

No, it hasn't. You think unvaccinated people should be allowed to enter venues by testing because LFTs are more reliable than vaccines. That's your main point. You are a very thinly veiled anti vaxxer who keeps changing tack and quoting nonsense to support your ideas.

Don't think you can just backtrack now.

What the NHS are actually saying is to get vaccinated and also take tests at home for extra peace of mind, not to require en masse testing for events, and definitely not to consider using negative LFT results from unvaccinated people as equivalent to vaccine protection.

Nope. Didn’t say that once. I said that unvaccinated people are allowed into venues with LFTs because they are - it is one of the options (along with proof of previous infection). I said that I think everyone , including vaccinated people, should be required to test rather than exempting vaccinated people when they could still be infected. I haven’t changed my position at all. You’ve clearly misread or misunderstood what I’ve written. Go back and reread it if you like.

@bumbleymummy

Nope. Didn’t say that once. I said that unvaccinated people are allowed into venues with LFTs because they are - it is one of the options (along with proof of previous infection). I said that I think everyone , including vaccinated people, should be required to test rather than exempting vaccinated people when they could still be infected. I haven’t changed my position at all. You’ve clearly misread or misunderstood what I’ve written. Go back and reread it if you like.

We've already been over all of this. The NHS don't think vaccinated people should NEED to test on top of being vaccinated. There's solid logic behind that decision. Your opinion doesn't matter.

Yes they do - I sent you the link above.

Here’s the link again snd the relevant quote.

“ Research shows rapid tests are a reliable test for COVID-19. They give a quick result and do not need to be sent to a lab.

Even if you're vaccinated, you could still catch the virus or pass it on. Doing rapid tests helps to protect yourself and others.

When to do rapid tests

Do rapid tests on days when you're more likely to catch or spread COVID-19.

For example, do a test before you:

mix with people in crowded indoor places
visit someone who is at higher risk of getting seriously ill from COVID-19”

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/regular-rapid-coronavirus-tests-if-you-do-not-have-symptoms/

I've learnt a lot from the dialogue but I'm coming on now to give you both a time out .

Even before this Omicron variant the who said vaccination alone is not enough.🤷

@peridito
I agree - it's derailing the thread.

Chances are big venues will be closed before the end of the month anyway at this rate. Making passports a complete nonsense.

To get the thread back on track. Some positive news from SA in that it looks like cases are slowing - without restrictions.

Without imposing additional restrictions*

@bumbleymummy

To get the thread back on track. Some positive news from SA in that it looks like cases are slowing - without restrictions.

That won't stop them locking us down though. They will explain it away saying its not comparable blah blah blah

I was reading the news from S.Africa this morning. Cases levelling off and no they didn’t impose any restrictions on a population that is not as vaccinated as ours. (Yes a younger population but still -no restrictions/ no lockdown)

Expert over there is theorising (and it’s just a theory) that t-cell immunity from previous infections/ vaccines maybe helping. So. It all about antibodies.

No we don’t have all the information yet but I think every day the news is more positive. And that should be discussed as it shapes what will happen here. (And should shape policy decisions).

All the worse case models are assuming complete vaccine escape and zero impact from any immunity.