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Good news re Omicron

337 replies

Tryingtryingandtrying · 09/12/2021 17:24

twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1468985784338366468?t=0RA5_V7CWbGjhgxfNIDbAQ&s=19

All looking pretty positive.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/12/2021 00:44

[quote megustalacerveza]@RedToothBrush What have I not understood? He can get a Pfizer or Moderna booster, like I said. There are walk ins all over the country. I went to one myself and was in exactly the same situation of having 2 x AZ. You walk in and say 'I'd like a booster, please' and you get a booster.[/quote]
Hes not bloody eligible for a booster cos hes 6 months short of 40.

Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 00:45

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Tealightsandd · 11/12/2021 00:46

This is Israel from a few weeks ago. Note:

Serious COVID cases hit lowest rate in nearly 2 months, most are unvaccinated

And

349 of 460 patients hospitalized with severe illness have not been inoculated; 720,000 eligible Israelis have not received single dose; 40% of the population received booster

www.timesofisrael.com/serious-covid-cases-hit-lowest-rate-in-nearly-2-months-most-are-unvaccinated/

Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 00:48

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megustalacerveza · 11/12/2021 00:49

@RedToothBrush Funny how I'm 36 and I got one then, isn't it? And my 33-year-old sister just had hers yesterday? And all my work colleagues under 40?

If he wanted one, he could get one. There's almost zero chance of someone who is 39 and jabbed with AZ being turned away, especially in London.

If you'd rather just whine and complain, be my guest. I thought you were actually asking for advice.

Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 00:51

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megustalacerveza · 11/12/2021 00:52

@Greyowl32 You think I'm not aware of all that? But who cares? We can't fix the NHS overnight. The situation is what it is. We have to deal with what we have right now. And that's an acute crisis. It doesn't matter about what's fair or what things should be like. We need to just deal with what's in front of us NOW.

I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if you rang 999 because you'd collapsed at home and they told you 'sorry, we haven't got the capacity for you'.

bumbleymummy · 11/12/2021 00:53

@megustalacerveza

No, it doesn't make more sense. Unvaccinated people are still at much higher risk of actually getting sick if they get covid, and they are also at higher risk of catching it and spreading it further than vaccinated people. LFTs are so unreliable that they're going to miss lots of cases. If everyone is vaccinated, it matters far less if a few positive cases sneak into an event. One positive case may spread to 20 other people, compared to many, many more if most people weren't vaccinated. So the overall impact of that event on wider society and the health service is much worse.

Well, if you check the statistics, you’ll see that young people (the usual group frequenting night clubs) are very low risk of serious illness/hospitalisation anyway. And recent studies showed that if a person is infected then they are just as likely to spread it whether they’re vaccinated or unvaccinated.

You seem to be missing the point that unvaccinated people can already enter these clubs with a negative lft. My point was that everyone should have to test, regardless of their vaccine status. It may not pick up all the cases but it will definitely pick up more than not testing people at all.

And again, you’re forgetting that one of the concerns at the moment is that two doses of the vaccine are not as effective against omicron. Most people in the night-club going age bracket will have only had two doses and will not be eligible for a booster so cases will still spread among the vaccinated.

Tealightsandd · 11/12/2021 00:57

you're so obsessed about the NHS start a campaign to ban alcohol, make exercise mandatory and get rid of junk food.

Stress.... Can be more deadly than any of those three issues you mention.

Alcohol is, for many (but not all), absolutely fine in moderation. Junk food too. Psychological boosts if nothing else.

Health is holistic. Physical - and mental.

Particularly for those struggling - emotionally, physically, or socioeconomically, for whom life is a grind, sometimes a bad-for-you treat is needed. Solace and respite for a brief while.

Many people take limited exercise due to poor mental or physical health - including pain and limited mobility.

Want to improve the nation's health (and reduce strain on the NHS)? Then you'll want to see urgent action to end the public health housing and homelessness emergency. And well funded and managed public facilities - NHS (including mental health), social care, public transport.

Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 00:58

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Tealightsandd · 11/12/2021 01:00

Israel has a higher percentage of vaccinated people with covid passports than virtually any country in the world

Wrong.

megustalacerveza · 11/12/2021 01:00

[quote bumbleymummy]@megustalacerveza

No, it doesn't make more sense. Unvaccinated people are still at much higher risk of actually getting sick if they get covid, and they are also at higher risk of catching it and spreading it further than vaccinated people. LFTs are so unreliable that they're going to miss lots of cases. If everyone is vaccinated, it matters far less if a few positive cases sneak into an event. One positive case may spread to 20 other people, compared to many, many more if most people weren't vaccinated. So the overall impact of that event on wider society and the health service is much worse.

Well, if you check the statistics, you’ll see that young people (the usual group frequenting night clubs) are very low risk of serious illness/hospitalisation anyway. And recent studies showed that if a person is infected then they are just as likely to spread it whether they’re vaccinated or unvaccinated.

You seem to be missing the point that unvaccinated people can already enter these clubs with a negative lft. My point was that everyone should have to test, regardless of their vaccine status. It may not pick up all the cases but it will definitely pick up more than not testing people at all.

And again, you’re forgetting that one of the concerns at the moment is that two doses of the vaccine are not as effective against omicron. Most people in the night-club going age bracket will have only had two doses and will not be eligible for a booster so cases will still spread among the vaccinated.[/quote]
Sigh.

How are you STILL not getting it? An unvaccinated person is much, much more likely to catch covid in the first place. If you have 100 people who are vaccinated and 100 people who are unvaccinated and they all do LFTs, there is a statistically far higher chance that the unvaccinated people will have false negatives because there's statistically a far higher chance they're infected in the first place. Are you trying to claim this isn't true?

In addition to that, even if the unvaccinated attendees didn't have covid going in, they are far more likely to catch it when they're in there than vaccinated attendees, and therefore more likely to spread it further in the community. Are you trying to claim this isn't true?

Yes, cases will still spread among the vaccinated who have only had two doses...we must be ten posts in by now and you still haven't grasped that it's not about stopping the spread, it's about reducing it. Even a far less effective vaccine is much better than nothing at all, both for spread and severity of illness. And these 'young people' (funny you keep saying that because in London plenty of clubbers are well into their thirties and beyond) will likely have had boosters very soon, within the next month or two.

Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 01:01

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Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 01:02

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megustalacerveza · 11/12/2021 01:04

@Greyowl32 So!? That's pointless whataboutery. None of it makes a blind bit of difference to the situation we're in, does it? How do you just not have any grasp of that?

I've been waiting for a knee operation for fucking ages. The longer this shitshow goes on, the longer I have to wait, because there simply isn't the capacity for non-urgent operations in the middle of a pandemic. You don't seem to get that I don't care about whether I get covid or not, I care about my life being disrupted because so many people seem determined to pretend there isn't a pandemic and take the most basic precautions.

You think you're so clever but what's your actual answer here? What do you think should happen?

Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 01:05

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Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 01:09

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Tealightsandd · 11/12/2021 01:12

The argument is about " protecting granny" from your friend so what difference does it make to granny if she has had her jab as the vaccine protects her from serious illness, not from catching it

Granny maybe (why's it always granny btw? Does nobody care about grandad?). Depending whether or not she is, like many too young to be granny, immunocompromised. You see, some people are less protected by vaccines - and therefore rely on the decency and consideration of others in society.

There's also the knock on effect on non Covid care.

London woman misses out on vital kidney transplant ‘because too many Covid patients in ICU’

uk.news.yahoo.com/london-woman-misses-vital-kidney-080154457.html

bumbleymummy · 11/12/2021 01:12

@megustalacerveza and you’re still going on about what the vaccine does and conflating it with vaccine passports. If you’re trying to reduce spread then it makes more sense to require everyone to show a negative test because it could pick up positive cases in vaccinated people who could have otherwise just entered with their code and spread it around.

Banging on about it being better to have more vaccinated people in the room is irrelevant because we aren’t actually preventing unvaccinated people from entering - they can get in with a negative lft. So you’ll have vaccinated and unvaccinated people in the room, regardless but, with the current policy, you’ll potentially have let in a bunch of infected vaccinated people to spread the virus around. - silly and pointless

Lovelyricepudding · 11/12/2021 01:13

I noticed the BBC quickly stopped saying how it was doubling every day in South Africa - when number ms stopped doubling after 3 days and stayed the same.

Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 01:13

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Tealightsandd · 11/12/2021 01:14

care to provide the evidence to Israel not having one of the highest vaccination rates in the world?

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html

megustalacerveza · 11/12/2021 01:16

[quote bumbleymummy]@megustalacerveza and you’re still going on about what the vaccine does and conflating it with vaccine passports. If you’re trying to reduce spread then it makes more sense to require everyone to show a negative test because it could pick up positive cases in vaccinated people who could have otherwise just entered with their code and spread it around.

Banging on about it being better to have more vaccinated people in the room is irrelevant because we aren’t actually preventing unvaccinated people from entering - they can get in with a negative lft. So you’ll have vaccinated and unvaccinated people in the room, regardless but, with the current policy, you’ll potentially have let in a bunch of infected vaccinated people to spread the virus around. - silly and pointless[/quote]
Why should vaccinated people have the additional burden of providing a negative LFT every time? Their vaccination is equivalent, if not better, to a non-vaccinated person providing a negative test because LFTs aren't very reliable. You're essentially saying vaccinated people should have to go much further...why?!

Greyowl32 · 11/12/2021 01:16

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manolantern · 11/12/2021 01:24

@Lovelyricepudding

I noticed the BBC quickly stopped saying how it was doubling every day in South Africa - when number ms stopped doubling after 3 days and stayed the same.
SA computer system has been bust though, so case numbers are artificially low:

twitter.com/nicd_sa/status/1469405508679483395