New York City - New Mandates

[Gooseandamoose]

For anyone who hasn't seen it on the news, NYC mayor Bill de Blasio announced two new vaccine mandates yesterday for New York city

1. All private sector employees will have to be vaccinated without testing as a substitute. This is in addition to the mandates for many public sector workers that are already in place.

1. All children from 5 and up will have to be vaccinated with one shot to access indoor dining, museums and indoor entertainment venues. In addition, "Children between 5 and 11 will also be required to get vaccinated to participate in high-risk extracurricular activities. These activities include sports, band, orchestra, and dance. "

So that's pretty much everyone that will need to be vaccinated to work (unless self employed for the time being anyway) or do anything indoors in NYC, including kids from 5 and up.

Total insanity. Also going to scurper a lot of family holidays to NYC!

@TheScenicWay

Vaccine immunity wanes very rapidly. Are we really happy for kids to be getting boosters every few months? If not then what’s the point of a vaccine that wanes after 3 months or so?

Exactly.

Are we going to vaccinate kids every few months with a vaccine that isn't very good because that vaccine isn't good enough to protect vulnerable adults from infection??

Is that the strategy?

And long term this is going where precisely??

I went out to a Christmas dinner last week. Three of us vaccinated, one of us not. That person took a lateral flow test before the event. Which of us was the most likely to pass Covid on?

@BunsyGirl

I went out to a Christmas dinner last week. Three of us vaccinated, one of us not. That person took a lateral flow test before the event. Which of us was the most likely to pass Covid on?

Why didn't all of you test before the dinner?

Soooo fucking depressing and pretty batshit too. Urgh. I pray it doesn’t happen here in the U.K. but I fear it will as too many seem to enjoy stirring the shit pot.

@ilovesooty That’s not what NYC requires though is it? The “Covid passport” requirements there are based solely on vaccination.

By the way two of us (the vaccinated ones ) had Covid in the last 90 days so are instructed not to test. The other tests three times a week for work.

Your last paragraph answers my question. Thank you.

@ilovesooty but you’ve not addressed the point I was making…the unvaccinated person was not more risky. That’s where the rules in NYC fall down. Covid passes which allow access for those that are vaccinated, recently recovered, or recently received a negative COVID test result are far more sensible.

I had to ask my friend, who is swimming in the pool of conspiracies, wtf is going on as everything she tried to warn us about has come true.
I’m none the wiser as she told me some stuff about Fauci and the Gates of Hell (I think she meant Bill)
The world has gone mad. Where are all the sane people and what’s going on?

@TheScenicWay

I had to ask my friend, who is swimming in the pool of conspiracies, wtf is going on as everything she tried to warn us about has come true. I’m none the wiser as she told me some stuff about Fauci and the Gates of Hell (I think she meant Bill) The world has gone mad. Where are all the sane people and what’s going on?

Literal brainwashing is what's going on.

The far right and now the far left. Both a huge huge danger to the world. What on earth is going on??

And without long term safety data there is no proof to the contrary either. Since when do we throw (even a few) children under the bus to protect the elderly?

So you are doom-mongering without any evidence, @TinaYouFatLard. You are just guessing about future complications.

I'm certain every single person on this thread would happily allow their child to ride in a car. 205 children are injured and 21 killed in car crashes in the UK every year. How many other calculated risks do people take with their children?

This covid vaccination panic is a classic example of a fixation on the new, bright and shiny thing right under your nose, with associated blindness to things we blithely accept every day - people are more likely to worry about big, splashy headline dangers like being bitten by sharks or dying in a plane crash than very dangerous things that are part of everyday life such as car and bus travel, environmental pollution, and even sports like football and rugby. We hand smartphones to children.

Nobody is being thrown under a bus here. The idea that young lives are worth more than old ones is really shocking. The idea that young lives are being sacrificed, with the implication that this vaccine hasn't been tested enough and isn't safe, is egregiously untrue.

Literal brainwashing is what's going on.

Oh the fucking irony....

TheScenicWay

<span class="italic">Vaccine immunity wanes very rapidly. Are we really happy for kids to be getting boosters every few months? If not then what’s the point of a vaccine that wanes after 3 months or so?</span>

You need to provide solid evidence for your statements here.

In particular, the statement that immunity wanes rapidly/after 3 months.

Evidence means properly conducted studies, not the theories of some keyboard culture warrior living in his mother's basement somewhere in Idaho.

[quote mathanxiety]@Happypootle, moaning about relatively affluent five year olds excluded from extracurricular activities, tourists not able to take expensive vacations in NYC, and all the rest of the entitlement on this thread is shocking.

The vax mandate is in place to protect the unfortunate people working in the coffee shops, restaurants, hotels, buses, taxis and ride share cars, and all the rest of the people who earn very little while facilitating middle class children's socialization and wealthy people's lifestyles.

The wait staff, the bus boys, the drivers, security guards, baristas and everyone else who has to get out and work in the midst of a pandemic and then go home to their own children have rights too.[/quote]
So much love for this!

@mathanxiety

This is well known now. What do you think there is a push for boosters?

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2113

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/jul/vaccine-antibody-levels-start-wane-around-2-3-months

@mathanxiety You use very emotive language but completely ignore the fact that the JCVI didn’t support the universal vaccination of children age 12-15 in the U.K:

www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-updated-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-aged-12-to-15

The decision to vaccinate 5-11 year olds hasn’t been made yet for the same reasons. The JCVI (Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation) is an independent expert advisory committee that advises UK health departments on immunisation, making recommendations concerning vaccination schedules and vaccine safety. It’s not a crackpot group of parents suffering from Covid anxiety.

You ignore the fact that some other countries allow the use of Covid passports rather than vaccine passports, so that testing prior to attending inside venues is an alternative - a very sensible alternative given that being vaccinated doesn’t stop you passing Covid on.

The problem in the US is that the vaccination rate for adults is too low. That’s why your deaths rates are currently higher than ours in the UK, despite the U.K. having a large number of cases. Vaccinating children will not stop this. I personally know a number of adults who picked up Covid from other vaccinated adults at events where children were not in attendance.

Vaccinating kids that's dont need it to protect triple vaccinated adults ....

Insanity. I hope not a single one of those kids develop health issue because of adults paranoia

@mathanxiety

And without long term safety data there is no proof to the contrary either. Since when do we throw (even a few) children under the bus to protect the elderly?

So you are doom-mongering without any evidence, @TinaYouFatLard. You are just guessing about future complications.

I'm certain every single person on this thread would happily allow their child to ride in a car. 205 children are injured and 21 killed in car crashes in the UK every year. How many other calculated risks do people take with their children?

This covid vaccination panic is a classic example of a fixation on the new, bright and shiny thing right under your nose, with associated blindness to things we blithely accept every day - people are more likely to worry about big, splashy headline dangers like being bitten by sharks or dying in a plane crash than very dangerous things that are part of everyday life such as car and bus travel, environmental pollution, and even sports like football and rugby. We hand smartphones to children.

Nobody is being thrown under a bus here. The idea that young lives are worth more than old ones is really shocking. The idea that young lives are being sacrificed, with the implication that this vaccine hasn't been tested enough and isn't safe, is egregiously untrue.

Not a single one of the activities you mentioned comes with an unknown risk of long term side effects.

*except pollution but it's not like most people have much choice in the matter!

I don't think there is any doubt that vaccine antibodies wane relatively quickly. There is also no doubt that vaccinated people can both be infected and transmit the virus. I don't know what information there is on how virus mutation impacts vaccine effectiveness but I imagine that it is a factor.

This is unfortunate. But it is what it is and surely the only thing to do is adapt accordingly.

Which IMO makes vaccinating children and mandatory vaccines nonsensical. Not only is it a waste of vaccines / resources but it is also potentially an overuse of vaccines which could do more harm than good in the long run.

The argument for mandatory mass vaccination is that it will either eradicate a pathogen or it will provide herd immunity to it. Current covid19 vaccines can do neither of those things as they simply are not effective enough.

So what is the justification around policies such as the NYC one? Because at the moment it seems to be "we wish the vaccines worked better than they do". We need public health policies which are based in the latest emerging science not in wishful thinking.

I read recently that the WHO is not for the vaccination of children or of boosters for adults in the West whilst there are many countries which have not yet been able to vaccinate their vulnerable people. I must say I agree with them and I think the vaccine hoarding and overuse in the west is very very selfish. Who do we think we are giving vaccines to kids who don't need them and triple vaccinating non vulnerable people whilst so many vulnerable people in the world still haven't had a single dose? It's not something to be proud of.

We are not going to vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. So let's save the vaccines for those that need them and will benefit from them.

I’m aghast at so much shite @mathanxiety is spewing.

I will just say that yes, I do believe young lives are more valuable than old lives. This has been a social norm since time immemorial and if you disagree then I can see why we cannot ever agree on the response to Covid.

@mathanxiety

And without long term safety data there is no proof to the contrary either. Since when do we throw (even a few) children under the bus to protect the elderly?

So you are doom-mongering without any evidence, @TinaYouFatLard. You are just guessing about future complications.

I'm certain every single person on this thread would happily allow their child to ride in a car. 205 children are injured and 21 killed in car crashes in the UK every year. How many other calculated risks do people take with their children?

This covid vaccination panic is a classic example of a fixation on the new, bright and shiny thing right under your nose, with associated blindness to things we blithely accept every day - people are more likely to worry about big, splashy headline dangers like being bitten by sharks or dying in a plane crash than very dangerous things that are part of everyday life such as car and bus travel, environmental pollution, and even sports like football and rugby. We hand smartphones to children.

Nobody is being thrown under a bus here. The idea that young lives are worth more than old ones is really shocking. The idea that young lives are being sacrificed, with the implication that this vaccine hasn't been tested enough and isn't safe, is egregiously untrue.

The refusal to acknowledge any nuance to this debate is depressing. Some people don't want to vaccinate their children yet, some people are happy to. Other people are concerned that a choice like this should be mandated, even if they are personally happy to go ahead. They might feel differently about their children of different ages. We are all still learning about the virus and the vaccine and will be able to moderate our views over time. Telling people they're bad because they don't agree with you, just polarises the debate and makes people dig in to their current positions even more.

The idea that young lives are worth more than old ones is really shocking

It's not shocking, it's normal human thinking.
At least it was until 2020.

It's not shocking, it's normal human thinking.

Not normal in my world. It's shocking. Wait until you are "old" and still a human being!