65% of hospitalisations are vaccinated.

[Twotone]

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/?s=09

@Squleamish yeah it matters if she is advocating anti vaccination agenda for “healthy” folks while pretending she isn’t. If someone is going to try and influence people on public forums they should be truthful about it.

@Scautish

Continuing to message against the government. Continuing their anti vaxx narrative. Please do not take this poster seriously.

Do you have any idea of how this post of yours reads?

It's like something out of a dystopian novel.

@bumbleymummy

Yep. So can we stop saying that hospitals are ‘being overwhelmed by unvaccinated people’ now please?

I haven't seen anyone staying that in those terms: perhaps you prefer: 'Hospitals are being overwhelmed by seriously ill COVID patients among whom the unvaccinated are significantly over-represented' Better?

[quote Beachcomber]@Scautish

Continuing to message against the government. Continuing their anti vaxx narrative. Please do not take this poster seriously.

Do you have any idea of how this post of yours reads?

It's like something out of a dystopian novel.[/quote]

No, it does not. Have you read dystopian novels?

Ok @beachcomber - I should have said (as I’d said many times before) the government’s medical advisors. And yes I absolutely don’t think we should message against them.

But your melodramatic “dystopian novel” is fucking hilarious.

If you really want dystopian go back a couple of hundred years when there were no vaccines - is that the world you’re dreaming of?

Dystopian is not following the advice of extremely qualified medical professionals - and even encouraging others to follow your idiotic logic - because some twat on twitter said it’s a conspiracy.

I wish the anti-Vaxxers could be refused treatment for Covid and let evolution takes its course but of course they’ll be pleading for help when they do catch it and these highly qualified medical professions will be there to help them.

Or perhaps they would prefer the twat from twitter to treat them instead?

Was this the thread where obesity was discussed at length? Because it seems like Covid does like getting into fatty tissues and cells:

www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211209/coronavirus-attacks-fat-tissue

Where did Bumbley go?

Since the decline in smoking, weight gain has increased. Today, approximately 60% of the UK population is overweight.

So... the majority.

@kittensinthekitchen

Where did Bumbley go?

Perhaps she needed an early night? For an early morning vaccine appointment.

I did wonder if perhaps she had an early morning surgery or consults but she seems to still be posting on other threads (covid-related, obviously)

Maybe she just accidentally unfollowed the thread. Shame, she was quite invested in it, and some of us had some questions still.

She should post a photo of her I've Had My Covid Jab sticker tomorrow

@Scautish

Ok *@beachcomber* - I should have said (as I’d said many times before) the government’s medical advisors. And yes I absolutely don’t think we should message against them.

But your melodramatic “dystopian novel” is fucking hilarious.

If you really want dystopian go back a couple of hundred years when there were no vaccines - is that the world you’re dreaming of?

Dystopian is not following the advice of extremely qualified medical professionals - and even encouraging others to follow your idiotic logic - because some twat on twitter said it’s a conspiracy.

I wish the anti-Vaxxers could be refused treatment for Covid and let evolution takes its course but of course they’ll be pleading for help when they do catch it and these highly qualified medical professions will be there to help them.

Or perhaps they would prefer the twat from twitter to treat them instead?

I've read some unpleasant things about this subject but this is the first time it's been directed at me.

Listen to yourself. You are wishing disease, ill health and death on people because they disagree with you on a subject that is very controversial. And it is controversial whether you like it or not. Not all countries are dealing with covid19 in the same way.

I hope that all this bile that we are seeing comes from a place of fear. Because that is understandable at least. Most of us are afraid. We are afraid to be ill, we are afraid for our loved ones, we are afraid of the evolution of the pandemic.

I had covid before vaccines were available to my age group. And I was pretty ill with it and quite frightened at certain points. I'm currently unvaccinated as I live in a country which considers you immune for 6 months following infection. Did you know that in Switzerland it is 12 months post infection?

So you can stop wishing "natural selection" for people like me as I am simply following the medical advice of my government. Something you approve of.

And I wouldn't be surprised if bumbleymummy has stepped away from this thread because it has turned nasty with a mocking bullying tone.

Posting mocking comments to each other about other MNers in the 3rd person is pathetic.

The hospitals are not ‘overwhelmed’ with unvaccinated Covid patients.

35% of 5% total Covid occupied beds in England = 1.75% of NHS beds occupied by unvaccinated Covid patients.

Let’s assume if we moved to total vaccination you reduce that 1.75% figure by 65%, you then drop to 0.6%.

So you are gaining about one bed in every hundred.

A gain sure, but not by that much.

Meanwhile, fat people, drinkers, smokers, self inflicted diabetics, sexually promiscuous, drug users, risky recreational hobbies / activities / sports / drivers etc

@MummyPop00

The hospitals are not ‘overwhelmed’ with unvaccinated Covid patients.

35% of 5% total Covid occupied beds in England = 1.75% of NHS beds occupied by unvaccinated Covid patients.

BMA disagrees

inews.co.uk/news/health/doctors-incredibly-frustrated-unvaccinated-covid-patients-delaying-nhs-operations-1336507

@RoseAndRose

That’s the Times story specifically re: ITU.

Nadine Dorries hasn’t provided a link to the data yet to verify.

@Beachcomber

I'm currently unvaccinated as I live in a country which considers you immune for 6 months following infection

So you can stop wishing "natural selection" for people like me as I am simply following the medical advice of my government

Why on earth would I wish natural selection on you? My comment is directed at those who can have the vaccine but choose not to. You are not choosing not to, you are currently ineligible - that does not make you an anti-vaxxer.

Presumably when your 6m post infection period is over you will get the vaccine?

Nadine Dorries hasn’t provided a link to the data yet to verify

It's not a government statement, so I doubt there will be a government response. And of course it's not just a question of data, it's the impact of that data. People might be misled into thinking that 1.75 % is a trivial number in terms of the ecology of a hospital.

It's simply a case of whether you believe BMA (representing doctors) about the impact and stresses.

And in Switzerland you can do a serological test which gives you a covid pass for 90 days if it shows previous infection. It is then renewable if you test again.

In all cases of previous infection a single dose of vaccine is considered full vaccination (same as in France).

Seems pretty pragmatic to me.

www.ge.ch/en/covid-19-certificate/scope-covid-certificate

[quote Scautish]@Beachcomber

I'm currently unvaccinated as I live in a country which considers you immune for 6 months following infection

So you can stop wishing "natural selection" for people like me as I am simply following the medical advice of my government

Why on earth would I wish natural selection on you? My comment is directed at those who can have the vaccine but choose not to. You are not choosing not to, you are currently ineligible - that does not make you an anti-vaxxer.

Presumably when your 6m post infection period is over you will get the vaccine?[/quote]
I didn't say I'm ineligible. You are allowed to have the vaccine before the 6 months is up.

So I'm unvaccinated not ineligible and therefore your remarks totally apply to me. (You see how these things are not as totally black and white as unvaccinated = stupid antivaxxer twats who deserve to die whilst having health care denied them).

I think after the 6 months I will do as in Switzerland and do a serological test. Not that it is any of your business.

I think after the 6 months I will do as in Switzerland and do a serological test

Great. And if the test shows you don’t have the required antibody levels then will you get the vaccine?

@roseandrose

No reason to ‘disbelieve’ the BMA but would be more comfortable with definitive stats from NHS England.

You are correct, 1.75% of NHS beds is still a useful number no doubt.

But you can’t introduce compulsion for that when you have this, which is allowed apparently:

digital.nhs.uk/news/2021/one-million-admissions-linked-to-obesity-in-2019-20-new-data-reveals

Very predictable reply. I knew that was exactly what you would post and I already decided when writing my previous post that I would reply to you that it is none of your business. Obviously. As we are both randoms on the Internet.

Are you asking me that (impertinent) question so that you can categorise me according to your ideas of who is deserving of medical care and being alive and who you can call an antivaxxer twat who is too stupid to deserve to be alive?

The situation is evolving with new data and information coming out constantly on vaccines, natural immunity, variants, etc. Recommdations are changing and evolving too as we learn and listen to each other. My plan is to keep an open mind.

What's yours?

@Beachcomber

Very predictable reply. I knew that was exactly what you would post and I already decided when writing my previous post that I would reply to you that it is none of your business. Obviously. As we are both randoms on the Internet.

Are you asking me that (impertinent) question so that you can categorise me according to your ideas of who is deserving of medical care and being alive and who you can call an antivaxxer twat who is too stupid to deserve to be alive?

The situation is evolving with new data and information coming out constantly on vaccines, natural immunity, variants, etc. Recommdations are changing and evolving too as we learn and listen to each other. My plan is to keep an open mind.

What's yours?

It's illogical to conduct a conversation about your choices, voluntarily offering one piece of information after another, and then roundly declare that another poster is being impertinent for asking you a simple, relevant follow-up question. You weren't asked for (say) your exact salary! It's germane.