65% of hospitalisations are vaccinated.

[Twotone]

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/?s=09

@milkyaqua seeing as you agree with her nonsense, I’ll post this again for you:

“I haven’t given advice, I’ve expressed my opinion. I haven’t made up statistics, I’ve linked to the data that shows over 80% of people in icu have a BMI>25.”

And if people believe my ‘advice’ as you’re choosing to call it, then more unvaccinated people with high BMIs will have the vaccine and more elderly/vulnerable people will have the booster ASAP. What part of that will be a bad thing exactly?

@Tealightsandd we didn’t need to do that because our vaccine uptake was already really high. I think prioritising the at risk groups actually really helped with that.

@titchy, less of the patronising brackets please. Again, you seem to think I’m talking about only ever prioritising high BMI people in general and therefore taking resources away from other groups(elderly/vulnerable) I’m specifically talking about adding the subset of unvaccinated people who are currently making up a majority in icu (BMI>25) to those targeted groups to see if we can bring those numbers down.

Why do you think vaccinating a high number of low risk people who are very unlikely to end up in hospital would be better than vaccinating a smaller group of people who are far more likely to end up in hospital? Surely that would be a bigger ‘waste of resources’?

And no, I don’t think we need to have nurses running around with scales. Many people do know their own BMI and/are aware if they are overweight/obese so if we actually increased awareness of it, they’d know it applied to them and might make them reconsider staying unvaccinated.

Tea lights, I never said it was the only risk factor. Age is still the biggest one.

How many omicron cases are there in icu in SA atm @ErrolTheDragon?

@ErrolTheDragon

Also. ITU is not overwhelmed & neither are hospital beds atm.

Yet. The predicted growth in cases from omicron - even if it's generally milder - may change that all too rapidly.

And, after fucking up several times over the last two years, you'd think it was (finally) time for lessons to be learned. Eg. Preventative proactive measures is always the better choice over reactive too late (again) overwhelmed hospitals. And let's not forget that HCP are already utterly shattered...physically - and emotionally.

That website is not reliable.

@milkyaqua seeing as you agree with her nonsense, I’ll post this again for you:

“I haven’t given advice, I’ve expressed my opinion. I haven’t made up statistics, I’ve linked to the data that shows over 80% of people in icu have a BMI>25.”

And I'll say it again for you, one more time with feeling:

Look over there!

Or simply, look at the data!

@bumbleymummy thanks for your reply but are you not indirectly suggesting that lower BMI individuals do not need a vaccination because they are “healthy” and we should concentrate efforts on other groups? How is this different from the antivaxxer rhetoric “If you have a healthy lifestyle, your immune system can defend itself on its own and doesn’t need a vaccine”?

I’m specifically talking about adding the subset of unvaccinated people who are currently making up a majority in icu (BMI>25) to those targeted groups to see if we can bring those numbers down.

And how do you do that with the same resources? If some are ring fenced for high BMI people that means that resource can't be used for healthy BMI people.

@user53782991 actually, All I’m doing is looking at the data, seeing that a particular group is at higher risk of ending up in ICU and saying that I think we should address that if we want to bring down the numbers. How is that any different to seeing that elderly/vulnerable people are more likely to end up in hospital and deciding to direct that by prioritising them for vaccines/boosters?

@titchy So you think we should not use resources on trying to target a group who are currently a disproportionate group in hospital so we can target people who aren’t as likely to end up in hospital? Why?

Why is there still a focus from certain posters about a BMI over 25, when the risk factor is a BMI over 40?

Because the majority of people in icu at the moment have a BMI>25

Also,

“ We found J-shaped associations between increasing BMI and hospital admission or death due to COVID-19, with increased risks for people with a BMI of 20 kg/m2 or less and approximately linear increases in risk for people with a BMI of more than 23 kg/m2 for admission to hospital, but the risk of death increased only in people with a BMI of more than 28 kg/m2. These outcomes were largely independent of other health conditions, including type 2 diabetes.”

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213858721000899

The fact that so many posters on this thread have stated that only people with a BMI over 40 at risk just shows that people aren’t aware that being overweight/obese increases your risk - not just being morbidly obese.

@bumbleymummy

The fact that so many posters on this thread have stated that only people with a BMI over 40 at risk just shows that people aren’t aware that being overweight/obese increases your risk - not just being morbidly obese.

You’re not wrong on this point (I generally don’t agree with you but I feel that preconceived notions are distracting from the facts here). >25 bmi puts you at risk for diabetes/pre-diabetes. Covid is not kind to the pancreas and can play havoc with blood sugars which in turn puts other organs under strain.

@bumbleymummy

The fact that so many posters on this thread have stated that only people with a BMI over 40 at risk just shows that people aren’t aware that being overweight/obese increases your risk - not just being morbidly obese.

The official list of risk factors states a BMI over 40.

I didn't say that they were the only ones at increased risk. Being alive puts you at increased risk. Leaving the house puts you at increased risk. Not wearing a mask puts you at increased risk. And, yes, so does not being vaccinated.

So you think we should not use resources on trying to target a group who are currently a disproportionate group in hospital so we can target people who aren’t as likely to end up in hospital? Why?

Because targeting costs money and time. The aim of the game with a very transmissible virus is speed. Get as many vaxxed as possible in as short a space of time as possible. If you can target whilst not slowing down vax rate do it (we are - easy to target by age), if you can't target a group without slowing down vax rate (and I don't see how you could target high BMI without slowing down vax rate), a scattergun approach hits the most amount of people in a short time. And every arm jabbed (apols for sounding like Chris Whitty!) protects everyone around that person, including overweight uncle George.

And channelling my inner Jonathan van Tam, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Covid is not kind to the pancreas and can play havoc with blood sugars

Do you have any evidence for this, Cornettoninja?

Not being snarky, genuinely interested. It's not been our experience here, though of course all sorts of random things can play havoc with blood sugars.

@kittensinthekitchen and so does having a BMI over 23 (from above) increase your risk of hospitalisation and a BMI over 28 increases your risk of death. I don’t see why people don’t want to acknowledge it.

casereports.bmj.com/content/14/2/e239656

www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus#tab=tab_1

@thing47, very general links above but it’s a factor repeated often along with links to cardiovascular illness. You’re right that a lot of different things can affect blood sugars but it’s a recognised risk factor with covid as far as I’m aware. Wasn’t diabetes one of the original conditions for one of the earlier groups for vaccinations? (My dad has diabetes but other conditions too as well as his age so I couldn’t pinpoint why he was placed in the group he was).

I think there’s an added risk with a high BMI and falling into particular age groups (probably late thirties to fifties) that many people don’t even know they have an issue. They may be in the early stages of a condition that hasn’t got bad enough for them to be alarmed enough to seek medical advice and therefore whatever is going on, be it diabetes, high blood pressure etc. isn’t controlled when they contract covid and puts them at extra risk because physically, unknown to them, particular organs were already under strain and not best placed to take a further hit from covid.

@titchy except we’ve done the ‘scattergun approach’ for months now and we’ve ended up with a high percentage of unvaccinated people with a BMI>25 in icu. Time to try a new approach if we want to reduce the numbers in hospital.we’re not slowing anything down by telling certain people that they’re more at risk than they previously thought - it should hopefully increase their uptake!

And dear old uncle George is more protected by his own vaccine than everyone else’s. (I though this was really well known at this point?)

The paper I linked to above is in the Lancet Diabetes and Endocrinology Journal. You might find it interesting - it does discuss risks associated with Diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

Very general links above but it’s a factor repeated often along with links to cardiovascular illness. You’re right that a lot of different things can affect blood sugars but it’s a recognised risk factor with covid as far as I’m aware. Wasn’t diabetes one of the original conditions for one of the earlier groups for vaccinations?

Thanks very much, I'll have a read. Yes, you're right it was cited as a risk factor and whole family here were able to access vaccinations very early in the process as a result of having Type 1 (I don't have any knowledge or experience of Type 2).

Interestingly 2 of the 4 household members were told to shield (the oldest and the youngest) and 2 weren't – another classic bit of communication from the government

[quote bumbleymummy]@kittensinthekitchen and so does having a BMI over 23 (from above) increase your risk of hospitalisation and a BMI over 28 increases your risk of death. I don’t see why people don’t want to acknowledge it.[/quote]
Does being underweight also carry a risk? I mean 23 is considered with normal range, if that's also a risk sounds sensible to carry on promoting the vaccine to all. Again, those who are morbidly obese will be aware of the risk, it's been widely publicised.

Yes, according to that study, a BMI under 20 can also put you at increased risk.

@Nothinbut I was told that it does by my doctors, but I have no idea if that's statistically supported.