Page 14 | 65% of hospitalisations are vaccinated.

kittensinthekitchen · 10/12/2021 08:18

No reason to ‘disbelieve’ the BMA but would be more comfortable with definitive stats from NHS England.

@MummyPop00 - So you trust NHS England to advise on statistics for hospitalisations, but don't trust them to advise about the vaccine?

Sorry if I'm not understanding that right, I've not had enough coffee yet.

Beachcomber · 10/12/2021 08:19

@Innocenta

I think you missed the point of my post.

Scautish · 10/12/2021 08:21

Recommdations are changing and evolving too as we learn and listen to each other. My plan is to keep an open mind

I will rely on the qualified scientists’ peer-reviewed research and learning, listen to them, and follow their advice as I am not qualified to “do my own research”. I do recognise that anti-vaxxers will not do that - they will listen to each other and convince themselves they know better.

Beachcomber · 10/12/2021 08:27

The qualified scientists’ peer-reviewed research doesn't all concur on everything. And it will continue to evolve. What may seem "antivaxx" one day may become new official policy the next.

Hence different strategies and recommendations from different countries (as in the significant differences between Swiss recommendations and UK ones for example).

SLH2003 · 10/12/2021 08:31

@Beachcomber

The qualified scientists’ peer-reviewed research doesn't all concur on everything. And it will continue to evolve. What may seem "antivaxx" one day may become new official policy the next.

Hence different strategies and recommendations from different countries (as in the significant differences between Swiss recommendations and UK ones for example).

I'm not aware of anything antivax that is now considered official policy.

milkyaqua · 10/12/2021 08:32

I think, in this instance, it is pretty clear what is anti-vax and what is not. It is awful that people have been manipulated by social media to believe so much that is untrue, have not gotten themselves vaccinated, and have died (horribly) as a consequence.

Tabbacus · 10/12/2021 08:43

@milkyaqua

I think, in this instance, it is pretty clear what is anti-vax and what is not. It is awful that people have been manipulated by social media to believe so much that is untrue, have not gotten themselves vaccinated, and have died (horribly) as a consequence.

I agree. Its one thing for someone to look at data and facts and decide not to have it, but another for them to then go and misinterpret and willfully be dishonest in order to persuade others who probably haven't looked for themselves to not get it. I do think in the info there has been a gap and those who perhaps aren't as knowledgeable or capable of searching for and evaluating sources and their integrity haven't really been given much support beyond yeah get jabbed.

LightSpeeds · 10/12/2021 08:51

I work for services based around the local hospitals. As of yesterday, most of the Covid patients in our main county hospital were unvaccinated.

Innocenta · 10/12/2021 09:19

[quote Beachcomber]@Innocenta

I think you missed the point of my post.[/quote]
Nope.

Beachcomber · 10/12/2021 09:39

@SLH2003

I already gave you an example. The Swiss policy of leaving people unvaccinated post infection for 12 months goes against UK policy.

Which is antivaxx. Right? Going against what the UK government medical advisors recommend has been defined as antivaxx on this very thread.

Which I guess makes the Swiss government antivaxx...

SLH2003 · 10/12/2021 09:45

[quote Beachcomber]@SLH2003

I already gave you an example. The Swiss policy of leaving people unvaccinated post infection for 12 months goes against UK policy.

Which is antivaxx. Right? Going against what the UK government medical advisors recommend has been defined as antivaxx on this very thread.

Which I guess makes the Swiss government antivaxx...[/quote]
No that's a different country with a difference in policy.

user7514254 · 10/12/2021 09:58

The Swiss policy of leaving people unvaccinated post infection for 12 months

How interesting, do you have a source for this?

thing47 · 10/12/2021 11:11

The qualified scientists’ peer-reviewed research doesn't all concur on everything.

It pretty much does, actually. Where vaccination is concerned at any rate.

Of course you always get 1 or 2 outliers, but if you go to, say, the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine or Oxford University Health Trust, and canvas the epidemiologists or virologists at either, you will find 100% support for vaccination.

CaliforniaDrumming · 10/12/2021 11:21

@thing47

The qualified scientists’ peer-reviewed research doesn't all concur on everything.

It pretty much does, actually. Where vaccination is concerned at any rate.

Of course you always get 1 or 2 outliers, but if you go to, say, the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine or Oxford University Health Trust, and canvas the epidemiologists or virologists at either, you will find 100% support for vaccination.

Also 100% support for vaccination for everyone, not just the obese and overweight. I too am deeply unqualified to do my own research.

I might add that BAME people often have low BMI's ( me), but have a hidden propensity for genetic diseases which make them vulnerable ( also me). Exactly why it it makes sense for us all to get vaccinated ( as the general consensus of scientific opinion tells us to) rather than second guess as to how great our immunity is, when we really have no way of telling.

Beachcomber · 10/12/2021 14:49

@user7514254

The Swiss policy of leaving people unvaccinated post infection for 12 months

How interesting, do you have a source for this?

They recommend one dose of vaccine 4 weeks after recovery but they are happy to give you a covid pass of 365 days post recovery without any vaccination. This affords unvaccinated recovered people the same status and freedom of moment as fully vaccinated people whilst still allowing them to have one dose of vaccine if they prefer (or need to travel).

I live in France which has a similar policy but the covid pass is only valid for 6 months post infection.

The Swiss have talked about extending theirs even further to 18 months but I don't know if that is going to be confirmed.

www.ge.ch/en/covid-19-certificate/scope-covid-certificate

The "Swiss COVID certificate" Recognized only in Switzerland, the "Swiss COVID certificate" comes in three forms:

From 16 November 2021, a "Swiss COVID certificate", in case of recovery, can be obtained in two ways:
following a positive PCR test: certificate of recovery valid for 365 days (instead of 180 days)
following a positive serology test carried out after 15 November: certificate of recovery valid for 90 days. The serological test will have to be paid for and must be carried out by a laboratory certified by Swissmedic. After this period, it will be possible to carry out a new serological test which, in the event of a positive result, will once again give access to the "Swiss COVID certificate".
It is still recommended that people who are cured, receive a dose of vaccine as early as four weeks after infection. In this case, their COVID certificate is valid for twelve months in Switzerland and abroad.

Katieandthekids · 10/12/2021 15:37

[quote Scautish]@bumbleymummy

The incredible (positive) impact of the vaccination rollout is very evident in these two graphs (from www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/)

If you genuinely can’t see this impact from these graphs or understand the explanation as to why the OP’s title is very misleading there is little point in further engagement.[/quote]
Indeed.

Beachcomber · 10/12/2021 16:19

My apologies. I checked and the Swiss are considering extending the validity of vaccination with 2 doses to 18 months (from 12 months) not recovery certificates.

And that may change with Omicron.

But I do think it is interesting that different places have very different policies.

Tealightsandd · 10/12/2021 23:20

Meanwhile, fat people, drinkers, smokers, self inflicted diabetics, sexually promiscuous, drug users, risky recreational hobbies / activities / sports / drivers etc

Your posts screams ignorance and victim blaming. 'Self inflicted' diabetes? Hmmm. Stress, poverty, and genetic disposition. Nope. None of these tend to be self inflicted.

Overweight people. So the majority of the UK population (around 60% are overweight).

The number of overweight people has increased since the decline in smoking...

Smokers have paid for their NHS treatment and then some. Studies have demonstrated that smokers are a net economic gain. High tax income and lower pension and social care costs.

Obesity, smoking, drinking, drug taking, other 'self inflicted' issues. For thousands of years humans have turned to various substances (eg. sugar, narcotics, herbs, alcohol) or solace and respite from misery, poverty, and (emotional or physical) pain.

There are also many medications (including some used to treat mental ill health) plus medical conditions that cause weight gain.

Add in long NHS waits (going back years before the pandemic) for diagnosis and treatment - leaving many languishing in pain or with limited mobility.

Tealightsandd · 10/12/2021 23:21

Now, if you're genuinely concerned for the nation's health, here is what we need:

An end to the public health housing and homelessness emergency. And better funded and well managed public services - the NHS (including mental health), social services, public transport.