90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

I think a fair few may be pregnant women, who’s been lightly let down by this government when it comes to the vaccine. They were first told not to get the vaccine as it wasn’t safe. That message later changed but was not communicated clearly, so I’m not surprised pregnant women then turned it down or wanted to wait until their child was born.

I suspect that’s why the government won’t look at mandating vaccines as they’ve cocked up.

Not old days - the ratio still seems to be accurate. Dh is a Constant in our two local hospitals, in the one hospital all Covid patients on ITU are unvaccinated. In the other hospital’s ITU it’s all unvaccinated except one - who already had serious complicated health issues.
And yes they are cancelling much needed operations (including lots of cancer) every day.

That's 22 areas under 60% for first doses out of 69 areas, sorry.

@Toty

What news Channel were you listening to OP? Were they referring to the statistics for Jan 21 to July 21? You know when no-one was double vaccinated? Context is everything. It's like me saying the majority of those currently dying are fully vaccinated. This is true but as the majority are now fully vaccinated it makes sense.

There was an article in yesterday’s Sunday Times and in last week’s describing this situation

You have clearly thought this through @user1471548941 and at least are being sensible about it. You want the vaccine and aren't spouting uneducated theories or ridiculous reasons for not having it. No-one with any kind of empathy would judge you for your difficulties.

I hope you can find a way of having the vaccine.

@Iggly I think it has been quite clear for many months that the advice now is for pregnant women to be vaccinated. Really no excuse to not know that

@Pyewackect

I work in ICU and we expanded our unit to ensure we have a separate, controlled, unit for Covid , The Red Zone, plus the same amount of beds as we always had for other patients. Getting enough staff of course is another matter. Working in full PPE is difficult, it can be harrowing and it can take 8 staff to turn one patient. But yes , 90% are unvaccinated and we’ve had two emergency C sections on our unit ( unheard of before ). The babies were OK, sadly one of the mothers didn’t make it. So rest assured, we are handling just as many ICU patients as we ever were plus Covid. Anybody who wants to work in ICU are welcome to join us. We need everybody we can get.

Thank you for all you and your colleagues do in very difficult circumstances It must be soul destroying treating the unvaccinated when in most cases their stay in ICU could have been easily avoided I am fully vaccinated because I took the advice of professionals who know far more than me

@Iggly

I think a fair few may be pregnant women, who’s been lightly let down by this government when it comes to the vaccine. They were first told not to get the vaccine as it wasn’t safe. That message later changed but was not communicated clearly, so I’m not surprised pregnant women then turned it down or wanted to wait until their child was born.

I suspect that’s why the government won’t look at mandating vaccines as they’ve cocked up.

I am not in favour of mandating vaccines at all, but I do think after reading that Birmingham Mail article that we need more outreach in black and Asian areas.

I’d like to ask unvaccinated people, who have chosen not to have the vaccination how they’d feel about taking up an ICU bed and potentially preventing 10 lifesaving operations? Causing others to potential death or worsening outcomes
Have you ever wanted to ask this question of anyone else, at any other time, for any decision that they took which lands them in hospital? Or just this one vaccination?

The NHS has been fucked for years. It's nothing to do with unvaccinated people, but absolutely to do with the government and their refusal to sort it out, claiming no money. Amazing when you think of the billions they could magic into existence, for their friends incompetent tracking system.

[quote SofiaMichelle]@Mincepiepoptarts

The blame for the collapse of the NHS continues to be placed at the door of the dirty, diseased, thick antivaxxers. I read yesterday that it was their fault that cancer patients are missing vital operations. With lots of sanctimonious sound bites from the nurses and doctors lowering themselves to treat them who clearly feel they are going above and beyond.

Of course it's the thick anti-vaxxers' fault!

They are over 80 times more likely to end up in ICU with covid than vaccinated people.

You'd have to be fucking monumentally thick not to understand this.[/quote]
The trouble is they've somehow convinced themselves that because they believe something, based on evidence they've seen on Twitter and Facebook, that it's more valid than anything coming from actual scientists or NHS workers.

It's like a mental block. They refuse to open their minds to any new information or facts because they don't want to change their beliefs. It's exactly the same as happened with Brexit and they just become more entrenched the more you tell them. I have someone on my Facebook putting up a post every day about anyone under the age of 40 who's died. This is apparently evidence of the danger of the vaccine. With no further information: that they might have committed suicide, had cancer, even died of frigging Covid. It's bonkers but there's no point In engaging because anything that goes against their beliefs is just part of a conspiracy.

@Iggly

I think a fair few may be pregnant women, who’s been lightly let down by this government when it comes to the vaccine. They were first told not to get the vaccine as it wasn’t safe. That message later changed but was not communicated clearly, so I’m not surprised pregnant women then turned it down or wanted to wait until their child was born.

I suspect that’s why the government won’t look at mandating vaccines as they’ve cocked up.

The early messaging was shocking but it’s been absolutely crystal clear for at least 6 months that pregnant women should be vaccinated and that they are at high risk of covid complications. If they’re still not getting vaccinated now it’s about their poor decision making, not their pregnancy.

@toomuchlaundry " I think it has been quite clear for many months that the advice now is for pregnant women to be vaccinated. Really no excuse to not know that"

This is true in print and in terms of official advice but on the ground pregnant women's experiences are very different. It wasn't long ago (June) that I was advised against getting the vaccine when pregnant by a midwife. I also had to jump through hoops at the vaccination centre and would have left unvaccinated if I hadn't been pushy. I had to prompt my own midwife to ask/note my covid vaccination status in my maternity notes (in July). It wasn't until August they were asking us routinely if we'd had the vaccine.

@Neron

I’d like to ask unvaccinated people, who have chosen not to have the vaccination how they’d feel about taking up an ICU bed and potentially preventing 10 lifesaving operations? Causing others to potential death or worsening outcomes Have you ever wanted to ask this question of anyone else, at any other time, for any decision that they took which lands them in hospital? Or just this one vaccination?

The NHS has been fucked for years. It's nothing to do with unvaccinated people, but absolutely to do with the government and their refusal to sort it out, claiming no money. Amazing when you think of the billions they could magic into existence, for their friends incompetent tracking system.

As I said earlier, it's not either/or it's both. But having the vaccine now is a much quicker fix for the current crisis than training up thousands of new doctors and nurses, which takes literally years ( and over a decade for a consultant cancer specialist).

I would suggest that the person who blames it all on the minority of people who have decided not to have the vaccine are to blame for the current state of the Nhs rather than years of deliberate underfunding from a government with a very clear agenda to privatise our health service is in fact, the "thicko"
When people lose their right to body automany it is always women who fair worse.

@logsonlogsoff

‘ With lots of sanctimonious sound bites from the nurses and doctors lowering themselves to treat them who clearly feel they are going above and beyond.’

F-ing hell- doesn’t take long for them to go from heroes who we clap for once a week to this does it?
You’re talking about people who have worked ALL through in difficult circumstances, risking their own health, trying to save lives. Get a fucking grip.

Also agree with this. People are able to go to work and be professional in their care of patients whilst still acknowledging that they wouldn’t be there if they were vaccinated.

Yes the NHS is underfunded, but even if it wasn’t, surely it would be better that a large part of that funding didn’t have to be spent on unvaccinated people, when they could just have had a vaccine.

@MrsBerthaRochester

I would suggest that the person who blames it all on the minority of people who have decided not to have the vaccine are to blame for the current state of the Nhs rather than years of deliberate underfunding from a government with a very clear agenda to privatise our health service is in fact, the "thicko" When people lose their right to body automany it is always women who fair worse.

Minority? Did you see the post above from Birmingham Mail? Only 60% have been vaccinated. I don’t think 40% is a minority.

Maybe because they’re terrified of dying from the vaccine? There have been some pretty scary stories about people who have.

And no one has ever died on COVID, oh no. No stories about that, at all.

@pianolessons1

Most of those come under the broad heading of lack of critical thinking ability, if you can't weigh up the obvious pros and cons.

This.

I do find it astonishing that people who throughout their entire lives have never shown the slightest interest in science or politics or ethics or society are now all desperate to put their right to "do their own research" over the rights of people with critical illnesses etc to get life-saving operations.

But fundamentally all of these people lack the ability to think critically and balance risk. And their refusal to do so is costing people their lives.

Imagine how much capacity we'd have in the NHS if the billions of pounds - and yes, I do mean billions, possibly tens of billions - of OUR money that the Govt has wasted on all the failed and pointless measures had instead been invested into the NHS and in recruiting and retaining staff?

Billions were wasted on those stupid Nightingale hospitals that never treated a single patient! Track and trace. Furlough. Billions of pounds out of our pockets, totally wasted, down the drain.

I remember retired doctors and nurses having their offer to return to work ignored or rejected.

But people prefer instead to blame those who are not triple jabbed!

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@pianolessons1

Most of those come under the broad heading of lack of critical thinking ability, if you can't weigh up the obvious pros and cons.

This.

I do find it astonishing that people who throughout their entire lives have never shown the slightest interest in science or politics or ethics or society are now all desperate to put their right to "do their own research" over the rights of people with critical illnesses etc to get life-saving operations.

But fundamentally all of these people lack the ability to think critically and balance risk. And their refusal to do so is costing people their lives.[/quote]
Yes. Overnight epidemiologists, thanks to FB et al 🤦‍♀️

It's not funding that has the NHS on its knees, it's incompetence. Maybe re open the nightingale hospitals with skeleton staff for the idiots who can only think in terms of themselves, treat them but not at the expense of those who have had the vaccine.

That is the issue though! No one gave a toss about the NHS before. No one was asking questions about the demographic of people taking up beds, or the lack of staff.
People need to stop turning on one another and look at the biggest threat - the government.

Because they are scared of the lizard king.

I am sorry to bore on about this. But I am an Asian woman and therefore feel particularly concerned when Asian women listen to "bad science" or possibly the terrible advice of the men/religious figures in their community and do not get the vaccine. We are especially vulnerable to many hidden diseases: diabetes, heart disease, thalassemia.

I am slim- 5"7 and a size 10- but was alarmed to find I was pre-diabetic a couple of years ago. It was hidden because I was not overweight. Have spent the entire pandemic staying off carbs and getting my blood sugar down,and am now normal. If you are an Asian woman please be careful of your health, even if you are slim and have no symptoms. And get jabbed.