90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

@SarahJeffers341

Maybe because they’re terrified of dying from the vaccine? There have been some pretty scary stories about people who have. Alcoholics, smokers (majority of lung cancer sufferers), obese etc etc are also causing the NHS problems that could be preventable.

And yet chances of death or long term disability from the illness are greater.

The "Look over there" argument about alcoholics, smokers etc really doesn't work. You can't compare the process of getting over the serious illness that is addiction with that of simply having a vaccination.

The other big issue is that if the people who are needing beds in ICU are ill because of something highly contagious, even if there are free beds, you wouldn't want to put someone post op in one of them. Imagine having bowel surgery and then developing a condition that gives you a persistent cough, dehisced wound anyone ?

The number of people who have died from blood clots in AZ is miniscule compared to the number of people who have died from blood clots through Covid. In any case I venture that the people in ICU would be mostly under 40 and offered Pfizer or Moderna. There is no excuse except medical exemptions for this level of stupidity. Time we stopped making excuses.

With lots of sanctimonious sound bites from the nurses and doctors lowering themselves to treat them who clearly feel they are going above and beyond.

That, @Mincepiepoptarts, is a pretty vile thing to say. Medical staff who are on the front line and have been throughout- to the detriment of their own mental and physical health - share their first hand experiences and you call them sanctimonious?!?! Wow. Just wow.

@MaxNormal

I've seen this doing the rounds but it's in fact taken from very old data at a point in time where the vaccine roll-out was not complete. The percentages look very different now. Please don't post inaccurate information, it's not helpful.

ICNARC data is updated weekly…. I don’t know where you are getting the idea this is six months’ old

The only 2 people I know who ended up in hospital with Covid were unvaccinated.

[quote Fallagain]@Bigballer covid patients who are icu tend yo be there for a very long time before they either start or recover or die where as a patient who is post surgery may only be there for a couple of nights.[/quote]
Exactly

@justaskingagain

With lots of sanctimonious sound bites from the nurses and doctors lowering themselves to treat them who clearly feel they are going above and beyond.

That, @Mincepiepoptarts, is a pretty vile thing to say. Medical staff who are on the front line and have been throughout- to the detriment of their own mental and physical health - share their first hand experiences and you call them sanctimonious?!?! Wow. Just wow.

This. Not only do medical staff have to risk their lives saving idiot anti vaxxers, they are now called sanctimonius for pointing out basic science to FB researchers.

I'm sympathetic to the vaccine-hesitant parents of teens and soon of younger children. The risks and benefits of the vaccine are genuinely quite a marginal calculation for them. But their children are not the ones in ICU - as a PP said it's largely overweight adult men and the number of children and teens are vanishingly small. The sex bias in both vaccination take up and vulnerability is not much talked about for some reason, by comparison with the acres of print on ethnicity and socioeconomic status.

It’s incredibly selfish for anyone to choose not to be vaccinated (medical exemptions aside). I would be furious if I or a member of my family had urgent operations cancelled as a result - that’s the travesty. I’m furious on behalf of the medical staff working in such difficult circumstances. Yes, the concept of free health care at the point of delivery is flawed ….. maybe these non vaccinated would think twice if they had to take some personal responsibility for the burden they’re unnecessarily putting on the NHS.

I said this at the time, what on earth was the point of building the nightingale hospitals? They were going to save us, and yet they didn't because as many others have pointed out, there are not enough staff. When whoever planned to build them, what were their plans to staff them?

I’ll bite soon as I’m sick of the judgement of other’s choices.

I am unvaccinated. I have a severe needle phobia complicated by the fact I am autistic. I have attended the vaccination centre multiple times to the extent that they have told me to stop coming until I have seen my GP to come up with a way to deal with the phobia due to my reactions being so severe they deem it “unsafe” to vaccinate me.

NHS advice is some leaflet about breathing. Well if this stopped uncontrollable shaking and stimming I would have a vaccine by now!

Self referred to local CBT services. Initially told there is a 2 year wait to be seen then my referral was rejected because apparently autistic adults are ineligible for the service.

So I’m left trying to get a GP appointment and that is damn near impossible. Last phonecall I waited an hour to get through and then when I did I was told there were no appointments for 3 months. I said “okay, what date” and was told that the books weren’t open any further ahead than that… so I shall try again today and am fully expecting the same response!!!

I would bet money on many unvaccinated people being needle phobic and there is no real help to deal with it! In previous years I have been offered a flu vaccine via nasal spray and accepted it; this year I can’t even get an appointment. If a Covid vaccine was available in this format I would be skipping to the front of the queue!

I have been vigilant about mask wearing throughout, have a PCR test once a week (employer pays for private service) and also take an additional LTF most weeks, work from home instead of going into the office at even the slightest sniffle so I am doing my utmost to try and reduce the risk of me spreading anything.

[quote WoodyGd]@Lostinacloud I can assure you our ITU beds are full of the actual unvaccinated. Overweight males (and a smaller amount of females) who didn’t want the vaccine. We have a few who are vaccinated. I don’t include them in my anger.

My patients need 2/3 days of ITU after surgery. If you have someone in ITU for 3 weeks for covid that’s 7/8 planned surgeries not going ahead so we can keep them alive.

7/8 people with cancer. 7/8 people with massive aneurysms. 7/8 people we’ve let down.[/quote]
You sound like you would be happy to let these "undeserving" unvaxxed patients die. Is this the case?

As others have pointed out ad nauseaum, the government is who to blame for systematically de-funding the NHS for decades. Do some research into THAT.

@Mincepiepoptarts

The blame for the collapse of the NHS continues to be placed at the door of the dirty, diseased, thick antivaxxers. I read yesterday that it was their fault that cancer patients are missing vital operations. With lots of sanctimonious sound bites from the nurses and doctors lowering themselves to treat them who clearly feel they are going above and beyond.

Of course it's the thick anti-vaxxers' fault!

They are over 80 times more likely to end up in ICU with covid than vaccinated people.

You'd have to be fucking monumentally thick not to understand this.

There’s an anti-vaxxer at my work. No coincidentally, she is by far the stupidest employee there in general. She somehow managed to be both entities and incompetent.

@WoodyGd

I manage a surgical service across two hospital sites.

The worst part of my job is calling patients to tell them their surgery is cancelled due to no ITU bed. These are not people who are having some routine minor surgery, they need ITU because they are due for major life saving surgery.

They’ve planned their time off, they’ve isolated, they’ve been swabbed, they’ve had countless appointments/tests/pre ops and then they get me on the phone saying “sorry no go”.

The worst part is that you don’t know how it will go until the day before. There is a meeting first thing everyday to see if any patients can stepped down from ITU to a normal bed. If it’s a no then it’s a case of, ok there’s one bed, who gets it? We have specialities fighting each other for the chance to go ahead, pitting cancer against cancer or AAAs. Patients losing limbs because the bypass they need can’t be done because there isn’t a bed for them afterwards (might as well just take the limb once the leg is rotten enough).

All so some thicko can practice his or her right to not be vaccinated. It’s disgusting.

I already know I’ll have a cancellation this morning, it’s beyond bloody depressing

This post should be pinned to every Covid denying, vaccine refusal thread.

^ *entitled. Always good to make a typo when you’re criticising someone else’s stupidity.

@StealthPolarBear

I said this at the time, what on earth was the point of building the nightingale hospitals? They were going to save us, and yet they didn't because as many others have pointed out, there are not enough staff. When whoever planned to build them, what were their plans to staff them?

This.

Can some of the haters-of-the-unjabbed please address this very salient point?

[quote WoodyGd]@Lostinacloud I can assure you our ITU beds are full of the actual unvaccinated. Overweight males (and a smaller amount of females) who didn’t want the vaccine. We have a few who are vaccinated. I don’t include them in my anger.

My patients need 2/3 days of ITU after surgery. If you have someone in ITU for 3 weeks for covid that’s 7/8 planned surgeries not going ahead so we can keep them alive.

7/8 people with cancer. 7/8 people with massive aneurysms. 7/8 people we’ve let down.[/quote]
This is a very enlightening post, thank you. Your job must be awful at the moment, I am very sorry for you.

I’m shocked to see the facts laid out so bare, and it’s beyond comprehension why people don’t get vaccinated. for you for having to make those very tough phone calls.

@WoodyGd

I manage a surgical service across two hospital sites.

The worst part of my job is calling patients to tell them their surgery is cancelled due to no ITU bed. These are not people who are having some routine minor surgery, they need ITU because they are due for major life saving surgery.

They’ve planned their time off, they’ve isolated, they’ve been swabbed, they’ve had countless appointments/tests/pre ops and then they get me on the phone saying “sorry no go”.

The worst part is that you don’t know how it will go until the day before. There is a meeting first thing everyday to see if any patients can stepped down from ITU to a normal bed. If it’s a no then it’s a case of, ok there’s one bed, who gets it? We have specialities fighting each other for the chance to go ahead, pitting cancer against cancer or AAAs. Patients losing limbs because the bypass they need can’t be done because there isn’t a bed for them afterwards (might as well just take the limb once the leg is rotten enough).

All so some thicko can practice his or her right to not be vaccinated. It’s disgusting.

I already know I’ll have a cancellation this morning, it’s beyond bloody depressing

Absolutely spot on.

“ Can some of the haters-of-the-unjabbed please address this very salient point?”

How does NHS staff shortages detract from the stupidity of anti-vaxxers?

‘ With lots of sanctimonious sound bites from the nurses and doctors lowering themselves to treat them who clearly feel they are going above and beyond.’

F-ing hell- doesn’t take long for them to go from heroes who we clap for once a week to this does it?
You’re talking about people who have worked ALL through in difficult circumstances, risking their own health, trying to save lives. Get a fucking grip.

@logsonlogsoff

‘ With lots of sanctimonious sound bites from the nurses and doctors lowering themselves to treat them who clearly feel they are going above and beyond.’

F-ing hell- doesn’t take long for them to go from heroes who we clap for once a week to this does it?
You’re talking about people who have worked ALL through in difficult circumstances, risking their own health, trying to save lives. Get a fucking grip.

I agree. “Sanctimonious sound bites”…wow.

@Lostinacloud

If there were enough hospitals, beds, equipment and staff to cope with the almost doubled and ever ageing population since the start of the NHS then the country might be able to cope with the winter seasons.

But this isn't either/or it's both. We should have had better investment in hospitals (but we keep voting in a Government that doesn't believe in investing in infrastructure because we want to pay lower taxes and we wanted to vote for fewer people from the EU here who've gone back and now aren't here to staff the hospitals).

But given the place we're in now it's even more vital that we take pressure off the NHS. It's an absolute civic duty in my view: go to the pharmacist first with that cough or itchy skin; if you can afford it go to the osteopath with that bad back; go to a therapist for your anxiety. And have the frigging vaccine, so people can have their cancer operation.

Here's an article from my home city, showing the gravity of the situation. Vaccine take up in Birmingham is still under 60% in a third of the city's 22 areas.

'Plea to unvaccinated to act now as cancer delays mount'

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/medics-unite-urge-unvaccinated-act-22362147#ICID=Android_BMNewsApp_AppShare