Austrian Vaccine Mandate (new details)

[Battenburg77]

Some new details about the vaccine mandate in Austria have emerged today.

Repeated fines of €2000. Non payment of the fines to result in jail time. 4 weeks at first but maximum total custodial sentence of 1 year.

The unique part is that the individual concerned will be charged for their own "stay". They will have to pay for their time in the cell and for meals.

Here's the article for anyone who would like to Google translate and read it:

exxpress.at/alle-details-zum-gesetz-gegen-impfgegner-bis-zu-einem-jahr-beugehaft/

I don't know how the Austrian government is planning to have the space in prison to make this possible, but there's a mention in the article of special buildings or floors of prisons for "vaccination opponents".

@XenoBitch

No, you have said I am likely to clog up health care systems, and people like me are the reason why things like fines are being introduced. Threats of fines wont do a jot to help me. It would force me into poverty and homelessness.

You are clearly the type of person this is aimed at though, and like I said I was just curious what would make you get vaccinated, you said they have to address the reasons why, so I asked what they could do for you. You are tying yourself up in knots to avoid answering it though, I've obviously touched a nerve, so apologies for asking, I just thought maybe you could offer some insight that is all

Why on earth would any publication bother to create this as a work of fiction?

Because it comes from the same political party whose leader (Kickl) openly spreads all kinds of fake news about vaccines and touts the horse drug Ivermectin as the ultimate cure for covid.

Ok, sorry.
My reason is severe needle and medical phobia. A threat of a fine wont magically fix it. It would make me more distressed, and retreat.

The article in Exxpress seems to have screenshots/photos of an actual parliamentary bill/document detailing the specifics that they're reporting on - is it possible that this was an earlier draft that was tabled and then rejected?

It's possible that they are quoting or showing certain things which are true however knowing the background of the publication, most things need to be taken with many grains of salt. Other papers are reporting that this is the earliest draft of the bill, so there's definitely quite some way to go before it's actually implemented.

@CrunchyCarrot

That is utterly terrifying. Someone like me wouldn't survive very long in prison with my chronic ill health, disabilities and dietary requirements. I wouldn't have the option of moving to another country, either. It's crazy.

Then you’d just have to get the vaccine easy! Good on Austria I say.

@custardcreme

Ausnahmen sind für Kinder und Jugendliche unter 14 Jahren, schwangere Frauen, Genesene 180 Tage nach positivem Test und Menschen, die sich aus gesundheitlichen Gründen nicht impfen lassen können, vorgesehen.

“Exemptions for children under 14, pregnant women, anyone who’s had covid within the last 180 days, and those who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons.”

As I’ve said before, having lived in Austria for a very long time and being familiar with the way things work - anyone will be able to get a letter from their doctor declaring them exempt if they want to.

But if you prefer to believe that armed police will be forcibly injecting people or building special prisons for the unvaccinated - please, go ahead. Time will tell.

This is interesting, because apparently residents in Australia have been unable to have their physicians sign off an exemption when they have had very bad, life threatening reactions to the first jab. GPs are too scared of government reprecusions.

UK is unable to mandate the vaccine since we already have a law prohibiting it - 1984 health act(?). We have so far not segregated unvaccinated/have vaccine passes and I don't think there is public appetite anyway since it's been publicly acknowledged, and by BoJo, that you can still transmit with vaccine. I do think we might get refugees from Europe if this continues.

For all that is said about how badly our government has handled this crisis - there is no country I would sooner live just now.

I have no idea about Australia, but I can guarantee that no Austrian would have a problem with getting an exemption.

I've had my first vaccines and I'm booked in for my booster, although I have no idea whether I'll have it, it depends if I can go through with it on the day. At the moment I can't go to the same venue for my booster so I may well cancel and wait and see if I can.

Due to my needle phobia fines and the threat of imprisonment wouldn't necessarily have the vaccine. I was able to have it only because I could choose when and where and do it at my own pace.

Thanks custard for the more reliable information. I'm up north from you in Germany, and it's always amazing how different the two systems are. Is there an Ethikrat in Austria that has to approve the measures first, or can the government just pass what it feels like doing? If a vaccine mandate comes in Germany (and it's been made clear that a mandate does not and cannot equate to forced vaccinations), I suspect the bailiffs would be sent in before anyone gets sent to jail. I'm hoping it won't get that far though - the rates for first vaccinations have been encouragingly high in recent days, so 2G seems to be having an effect.
A colleague of mine is in Upper Austria and resolutely unvaccinated (along with their elderly parent). I've been wondering what they're going to do - but I suspect now they'll take the option you mention and try to find a doctor who will give them an exemption.

Rule, Austria’s Verfassungsgerichtshof - constitutional court - is responsible for ensuring the legality of any legislation; the government certainly can’t just do what it feels like. As in Germany, it has also been made clear that mandatory does not mean coercive or forcible.

Your upper Austria colleague will have no problems getting an exemption, I assume, but we’ll see how it plays out. Upper Austria is noisily anti-vax, including mayors and officials. (You’ve probably heard of the populist, anti-vaccination MFG party who are active there; one of their members died of covid last week)

Erststich numbers are increasing only very slowly here. The FPO have leapt on the bandwagon, of course, so they’re playing a large part in all the protests.

The whole thing’s a shitshow basically, but we know that!

Legally speaking, mandating it for 14 year olds and above is very interesting. Kid aged 14 refuses to have the vaccine- who is responsible for fines/ imprisonment? The parents?

@Incognito22333

Legally speaking, mandating it for 14 year olds and above is very interesting. Kid aged 14 refuses to have the vaccine- who is responsible for fines/ imprisonment? The parents?

That is a good point. And the possible outcomes do not bear thinking about.

@XenoBitch

Ok, sorry. My reason is severe needle and medical phobia. A threat of a fine wont magically fix it. It would make me more distressed, and retreat.

I am extremely pro-vaccine. But it shouldn't be mandated for people with severe phobias. The rest of us should have it to protect you/them.

@XenoBitch not that you should care about my opinion,sorry.

@flimflammingo thank you!
There are several people like me who frequent the Covid board too. We have all been told to get a grip, grow up, that is the needle is tiny, just look away etc. I was told to seek and take illegal drugs, and also to seek private therapy (I am on benefits).

If (and it is a massive if that I hope never happens) the jab is mandated in the UK, I hope phobia is classed as an exemption. It would be similar to the mask exemption where someone is unable to wear one due to distress.

@custardcreme

The problem in this case with informed consent is that people are “informing themselves” via social media, mumsnet, Facebook etc.

I don’t feel comfortable with mandatory vaccination, but as I say - knowing the massive grey zones in Austria regarding interpretation of rules and regulations, I don’t think we’re going to see the police state situation that everyone is feverishly imagining. I suspect the reality will be a lot more mundane.

I hope so custardcreme - I don't think people are feverishly imagining anything - they are scared and angry. What we hear about happening in Australia, Germancy, Austria - and those are not the only countries are they?

It's creeping over here and we're worried.

[quote XenoBitch]@flimflammingo thank you!
There are several people like me who frequent the Covid board too. We have all been told to get a grip, grow up, that is the needle is tiny, just look away etc. I was told to seek and take illegal drugs, and also to seek private therapy (I am on benefits).

If (and it is a massive if that I hope never happens) the jab is mandated in the UK, I hope phobia is classed as an exemption. It would be similar to the mask exemption where someone is unable to wear one due to distress.[/quote]
It should absolutely be classed as an exemption.
I can't imagine vaccines being mandated here.

What is the difference between mandatory and coecive/forceable? That they won't physically force people against their will?

@Incognito22333

Do you think the U.K. would accept Austrian refugees who are leaving due to a vaccine mandate?/persecution - what does international law say about this?

absolutely not. We are struggling to manage/deal with the situation of crossings from France. I doubt there will be little public tolerance of this.

@XenoBitch

*So what would make you get vaccinated? You are high risk for covid but the thought of dying of it isn't enough so what would persuade you?

You are exactly the type of person that this is aimed at, likely to clog up health systems but still refuses to make any mitigations so I am curious what would persuade someone like you that isn't already being done?*

Where have I said I am high risk for Covid?

'clogging up the health system'...

I work within the health sector and I see people 'clogging up the health system every day. Obese patients with their many many ailments due to over eating, alcoholics with their ravaged bodies needing medical intervention or just having fights when drunk and 'clogging' up A&E, drug users, my bil going on a cocain binge and dropping a TV on his head and 'clogging' up a ICU bed, smokers 'clogging up' beds with their lung cancer or emphysema, elderly people 'clogging' up beds because they dont have a family to take them in and no care system set up, diabetics 'clogging' up hospital beds because they have gangrene in their toes because they didn't look after them properly, People that were run over 'clogging' up beds beds because they didn't look before they crossed the roads, drunk people 'clogging up' the beds in A&E because they fell over and smashed their face in whilst out on their xmas do.

Do we then focus on these people? Will there be a perfect patient who can use the NHS?

The NHS that actually works to serve us ( the people) as we pay for it.

I work with pregnant ladies, I am double vaxxed, many many ladies pregnant ladies will not have the vax because they are scared it may effect the baby. Many ladies who have had IVF were told by their consultants to 'delay' having the vaccine as it was having an effect on womens period cycles. I get it. I dont tell these ladies they can not/or should not be entitled to use this service.

The NHS is not free, we pay for it and ALL should have access to it. Regardless what has made them need it. That includes smokers, drinkers, obese people and yes the very small majority of people that get very ill from covid.

And I agree with a poster up thread. Many many people have had covid and got through it with over the counter medicine in fact the vast vast majority did so and this is the reality of covid. over 98% of people will be completely fine. People see this, they see their families recover, they see themselves recover. Its their life experience. They dont feel they need a vaccine for a virus they fought off easily. And I get that.

I wouldn't have had the vaccines if I didn't work in such close contact with pregnant ladies but it was my choice to do so, I wanted to as I knew that so many of them were not having the vaccine. People should have a choice and not have freedoms, monies, health services, employment ect taken from them

And no one should advocate for that either.

It should absolutely be classed as an exemption.
I can't imagine vaccines being mandated here

I hope you are right. The government keeps saying they wont mandate vaccines, but I don't trust them at all. And all the bullshit YouGov polls keeps saying the public is in favour of them. Is it so easy to be in favour of something you are on board with.

What is the difference between mandatory and coecive/forceable? That they won't physically force people against their will

It is like getting mugged.. being told to choose between being stabbed or handing your bag over. Both ways are shit. Yet if it is 'get the jab or get fined', it is seen as a choice.

And please don't for one minute think the Tories will not use this to their advantage. The move to private health care is just around the corner and has been there for a while. "The NHS just couldn't cope with all those nasty unvaccinated people and they broke the system - now you will have to pay private - blame the unvaccinated' - will be trotted out sooner than people think.

How disgusting and backwards. People supporting this shit are much more moronic than the anti vaxxers.

@ all theriverrunsthrough What evidence you have that the Tories are aiming to privatised the NHS? I seemed to remember it was Tony Blair that was into this?

This is interesting, because apparently residents in Australia have been unable to have their physicians sign off an exemption when they have had very bad, life threatening reactions to the first jab. GPs are too scared of government reprecusions.

I think this will be the case in Austria as well. We know lots of people from the medical community and virtually all doctors are hugely pro-vaccine. It's a complex situation where hospitals are understaffed and overworked. Many doctors from all fields were left to fend for themselves during the pandemic, including procuring their own PPEs. Many have experienced the trauma of covid wards and the combination of politics and social non-compliance that repeatedly pushed the health system and staff to its limits.

Suffice to say that most doctors have no sympathy whatsoever for vaccine refusers. What's not mentioned in most media is that there's a clear class divide in Austria, with the majority of anti-vaxxers having lower levels of education or socio-economic status. Austria is also a very snobby society, probably a remnant of the aristocratic and imperial history. So even though doctors will provide the best care to sick patients, their empathy will end immediately on topics like vaccine exemptions or refusals.

I have actually not heard of a single case of someone successfully getting a vaccine exemption, nor any doctor issuing one. One doctor was actually investigated last year for issuing too many mask exemptions so I assume the government are keeping an even closer eye this time. No GP in their right mind would issue exemptions on the sole basis of patient request. This most likely extends to phobias and MH reasons as well since there's no way of quantifying the diagnosis.

I think only those who had a serious allergic reaction in the 20mins waiting period post-vaccine will be truly exempt. AZ has been discontinued in Austria so the whole blood clotting thing is no longer an issue.