Germany bans unvaccinated from shops and pubs.

[Ratched]

We really are going to end up with a two tier society. It's actually quite worrying.

I am NOT anti vaxx, just concerned at how we are sleep walking into giving away our hard won freedoms.

[quote Battenburg77]@Innocenta

I've spoken to someone in Aus who got pericarditis from their first dose and instead of being exempt from the second has been advised to go for AZ instead of another Pfizer.

There are also people who have developed issues like tinitus (see another thread on this board from today) from their first round of vaccines but are compelled to take the booster anyway due to employment mandates.

It's not cut and dry at all[/quote]
Agreed. I had a horrible, almost instant reaction to my Pfizer and my GP has offered me the option to have the AZ (I’m just under 30) or have a second Pfizer and risk the same reaction again. I’m still having side effects nearly 10 months on (episodes of racing heart and syncope with no heart issue detected). Doctors won’t exempt me. I’m terrified to have the second jab. Luckily I had COVID recently and it was like a moderate head cold.

It’s definitely not cut and dry.

Sorry, @Doodledeedum - I saw fakereview's comment first with substantially the same question, but I think my response to her answers you too. Yes, it's of course within an individual's right to make a self-detrimental choice. But there is already legal precedent for limits to that once it begins to harm others.

@Stomacharmeleon

This is not a specific to anyone question but I just wondered what exactly makes you exempt? Unable to be vaccinated?

Taken from the GOV site

While this list is not exhaustive, examples of medical exemptions from COVID-19 vaccination could include individuals:

receiving end of life care where vaccination is not in the individual’s interests
with learning disabilities or autistic individuals, or with a combination of impairments which result in the same distress, who find vaccination and testing distressing because of their condition and cannot be achieved through reasonable adjustments such as provision of an accessible environment
with medical contraindications to the vaccines such as severe allergy to all COVID-19 vaccines or their constituents
who have had adverse reactions to the first dose (for example, myocarditis)

However it’s on a case by case basis. I don’t fit in any of those categories and everyone tells me I SHOULD be fine to get the vaccine but nobody is willing to do it.

Did you have anaphylaxis, @lineandsinker? I have anaphylactic allergies and I know how horrible it can be. If you've never had it before it must have been particularly scary.

@violetskiss

I think a lot of people (me included) aren’t sleepwalking into anything - we wholeheartedly agree with decisions like this.

Then you should be wholeheartedly ashamed of yourself.

What if you were HIV+ and wanted to not have any treatment? If you infected future partners, you'd face legal sanctions

Yes but you don't pass it on by breathing on people do you? You have to have sex with them or share needles. It's quite hard to pass on and you wouldn't be fined for not having treatment.

@ItsALife If everyone tells you you are fine to get it, what exactly is the problem? Being medically complex isn't a contraindication. In fact it surely means you're more at risk from Covid...?

I fully support this. But it won't happen here.

@fakereview

What if you were HIV+ and wanted to not have any treatment? If you infected future partners, you'd face legal sanctions

Yes but you don't pass it on by breathing on people do you? You have to have sex with them or share needles. It's quite hard to pass on and you wouldn't be fined for not having treatment.

it becomes much more complex when someone wants to make an objectively bad choice that affects others

^ what I actually said to contextualise the bit you quoted.

Refusing Covid vaccination is, in fact, analogous to this.

@Innocenta

Nope, I'm expecting you to read it and conclude that these people should have a choice.

The first individual has "cardiac vulnerability" BECAUSE OF A COVID VACCINE. You're really saying that the best course of action is to have another? It should be that person's choice to decide whether they want to risk it again. To say otherwise is just inhumane.

As for the second individual - you seem to be saying that development of tinnitus from the first round isn't a sufficient reason to not go for a booster and that she should roll the dice with making it worse. Are you aware that tinnitus can drive people to suicide?

Regardless of whether you think they should be compelled to have another, it's not you who will be living in their body with any potential worsening of their health issues. And that's why is so important that it's their decision to make.

[quote Innocenta]@ItsALife If everyone tells you you are fine to get it, what exactly is the problem? Being medically complex isn't a contraindication. In fact it surely means you're more at risk from Covid...? [/quote]
Because nobody will inject me and I can’t self inject. I had a meeting with my GP about it who said I should be fine and at this point in time my GP surgery didn’t have vaccine clinics. I told the local vaccine clinics this but they turned me away. Once my GP surgery started doing vaccines did I booked in and they turned me away.

My consultant said they see no reason I shouldn’t get it as long as I’m in a hospital setting so they can deal with any complications so I booked in there and they turned me away too. They then had a meeting with the medical chief about my case and 12 weeks later rang me back saying they couldn’t vaccinate me there either. I can’t force anyone to jab me (although I wish I could because I’m currently on immunosuppressants so it would make my life less of a worry!)

[quote Innocenta]@ItsALife If everyone tells you you are fine to get it, what exactly is the problem? Being medically complex isn't a contraindication. In fact it surely means you're more at risk from Covid...? [/quote]
In her first post she says she’s tried multiple times and been turned down.

I have a family member who has had a reaction to the vaccine but wouldn't get exemption, GP isn't interested . It took a while and a lot of courage for him to have his second jab (same thing happened). He won't be having his booster . GP still not interested.

Doctors are not always right and this is putting far too much power in their hands .

I'm absolutely appalled at what's happening in Europe . I'm certain it won't come here . I can't imagine France going that way either .

It'd be better to pay people - or give them vouchers for health clubs etc , when they get each vaccine !

I think they should have a choice of the type of vaccine. I think they should have support, and additional medical investigation if needed, to ascertain if an exemption might be required.

I completely acknowledge that in rare cases, some people must be exempted! But it should be done based on medical need.

No, it's not me living in their body - because I live in mine, which is CEV and needs a wheelchair and often needs a hospital bed. And already has a congenital heart defect and permanent lung damage, among a lot else. So I think I have a pretty good idea of what it's like to live with impairment, thanks.

I don't think it will come here, some EU countries are very authoritarian.

@ItsALife that sounds like an absolute bloody nightmare.

@SickAndTiredAgain I read her post. I was asking for clarification because it doesn't make sense; she's (as is everyone on MN!) free not to answer if she doesn't want to.

@lineandsinker

That's a terrible situation and it's awful to learn that so many, including people posting on this thread, seem to believe that it would be appropriate for someone in your situation to be banned from having a coffee or doing your Xmas shopping in lieu of the exemption.

I think this is very concerning and history doesn't bode well for societies that try to create two-tier systems and pick one 'side' to victimise.
It's interesting that they're rushing it through before there is the opportunity to see if Austria's measures actually made a difference. The few people I know who are unvaccinated are medically exempt and have always been much more cautious that most of my vaccinated friends. Being vaccinated seems to encourage reckless behaviour in some people.

But what is the supposed rationale? @ItsALife How are they justifying you not having it? You've said you don't fit into any of the previously noted groups.

Also from the government website:

Warning healthcare workers how to spot myocarditis and pericarditis following Covid 19 vaccinations.

anyone troubled by this?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals

@ShinyHappyPoster

I think this is very concerning and history doesn't bode well for societies that try to create two-tier systems and pick one 'side' to victimise. It's interesting that they're rushing it through before there is the opportunity to see if Austria's measures actually made a difference. The few people I know who are unvaccinated are medically exempt and have always been much more cautious that most of my vaccinated friends. Being vaccinated seems to encourage reckless behaviour in some people.

Anti vaxxers are not victimised. This is deeply offensive to the millions of genuinely targeted groups throughout history. You sound like the Trumpers who wear yellow stars.

@Innocenta

Did you have anaphylaxis, *@lineandsinker*? I have anaphylactic allergies and I know how horrible it can be. If you've never had it before it must have been particularly scary.

Not anaphylaxis, no. Well, at least they didn’t describe it as that. Essentially, my heart started racing and I felt faint after a few mins of having the vaccine (during 15 min waiting period). No medication administered and it settled after about 25 mins.

It was hugely terrifying and I now have quite bad anxiety as a result around bodily sensations, taking medicines or eating foods from places I’ve never eaten at before. It’s caused me to have a mental breakdown.