Germany bans unvaccinated from shops and pubs.

[Ratched]

We really are going to end up with a two tier society. It's actually quite worrying.

I am NOT anti vaxx, just concerned at how we are sleep walking into giving away our hard won freedoms.

@ShinyHappyPoster

I think this is very concerning and history doesn't bode well for societies that try to create two-tier systems and pick one 'side' to victimise. It's interesting that they're rushing it through before there is the opportunity to see if Austria's measures actually made a difference. The few people I know who are unvaccinated are medically exempt and have always been much more cautious that most of my vaccinated friends. Being vaccinated seems to encourage reckless behaviour in some people.

Are you actually comparing this to things like apartheid and the Holocaust? What an appealing thing to say.

They've just found out the reason why astrazenica is causing clots (literally a clotting factor in the vaccine). Can't blame people for being cautious.

I'd say I'm glad I had Pfizer but then who knows if something won't turn up about that in a years time.

Brainwashed by fear.
(And I'm twice vaccinated and awaiting booster. But I can still see this is wrong.)

If you’re vaccinated then why are you so scared about Covid? The vaccine theoretically protects you, not others. You can still catch and transmit Covid. People who haven’t had this particular jab aren’t lepers. Many people are vaccinated against highly fatal diseases like TB and MMR (unlike Covid which has a high survival rate) so they are not “anti vax” if they don’t want the Covid jab.

I hope the people who are happy to have a segregated society (not learning from history’s mistakes) don’t have sex with new people. There’s always a risk of catching HIV and infecting others.

@NotMyselfWithoutCoffee

They've just found out the reason why astrazenica is causing clots (literally a clotting factor in the vaccine). Can't blame people for being cautious.

I'd say I'm glad I had Pfizer but then who knows if something won't turn up about that in a years time.

It caused 73 deaths out of 50 million doses in the UK and saved a million lives. I had AZ and was absolutely grateful to have it. Covid also causes clots.

Sources for the above figures here. www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418123

I'm more worried about a total collapse of our health service than I am about a 2 tier society right now. I guess the German government feels similarly.

Once the pandemic has passed I'll join you in demanding a restoration of full freedoms for the unvaccinated but right now they are not my top concern.

I am also a vaccine supporter but feel very conflicted about this.

Not helped by the view that Boris Johnson and his associates are corrupt liars.

If we had a government I trusted, I may be more on board 🤷‍♀️

@PinkMochi I am vaccinated and no longer particularly worried about COVID but I would like there to be a hospital bed available for my mum or dad if they catch it and need one. I'd also like my friend's 1 year post treatment breast screening to not be delayed further and I'd like to be able to see a neurologist at some point so I'd like the nhs to have some spare capacity.

Yes, it's shocking. I think everyone who can have the vaccine should have the vaccine and I understand governments want/need to get rates up, but this?

OTOH what is the answer?

Does it apply to people who work in shops and bars?

[quote Porcupineintherough]@PinkMochi I am vaccinated and no longer particularly worried about COVID but I would like there to be a hospital bed available for my mum or dad if they catch it and need one. I'd also like my friend's 1 year post treatment breast screening to not be delayed further and I'd like to be able to see a neurologist at some point so I'd like the nhs to have some spare capacity.[/quote]
There is already no bed for my surgery so I am going private. Lucky that I can afford to do so. Most people won't be able to.

@violetskiss

“ And for those who agree, what happens when they want you to do something you don't agree with?”

Well, I already have to do lots of things I don’t agree with because the government mandates them. Surely nobody is living in a perfect world where every law and regulation is exactly to their liking and personal preference? This is such a silly take.

What about in Texas, @violetskiss , where the government has made new abortion rules?

These sort of arbitrary erosions to civil liberties should raise alarm bells.

I find this completely wrong. I’m fully vaxxed as is literally everyone I know but this is not ok and I do count my blessings that I live here in the UK where I think measures like that are politically unlikely. But never impossible. If this then what next? That is not what I would understand as a free society. It’s a very very dark turn in my view.

firef1y couldn't have put it better

It caused 73 deaths out of 50 million doses in the UK and saved a million lives. I had AZ and was absolutely grateful to have it. Covid also causes clots

It does and I am also glad to have had it as I was particularly scared about getting long covid.

But 73 deaths is 73 destroyed families and 73 lives taken too early. Those people chose to have the vaccine and the outcome wasn't good. But they chose the risk.

In Austria and Greece, and to a lesser extent Germany and NZ, that choice is being removed. They have to undergo it.

People have the right to not want to be infected by those who choose not to take up the offer of the vaccine.

They might have the right to not want to be infected but nobody actually has the right to not be infected.

When have we ever had that right ?!

Do we have the right not be infected with the cold? With chlamydia? With head lice?

What has happened in the last two years to suddenly make people think we have rights and some sort of power over getting ill? The only thing we really have for certain is personal responsibility and it's always been that way. Hence why we wear condoms with new partners and french plait our DD's tea-tree smelling hair.

It's not ebola fgs and unvaccinated people aren't the virus. The virus is the virus.

(In Greece for the over 65s)

People have the right to not want to be infected by those who choose not to take up the offer of the vaccine

If I get ill it's pretty immaterial if someone had the vaccine or didn't. I am still ill.

I just wish we’d be a lot tougher here on masks. There’s zero enforcement - people who just CBA, or want to stick 2 fingers up, take the piss all the time around here, and anyone can say, if challenged, that they’re exempt. But I never see anyone challenged.

I don’t believe for a moment that every single person, or even half of them, who don’t wear masks around here, are exempt.
Especially when they’re a group of maybe 20 something students all jabbering their heads off on the bus.,🤬

[quote Porcupineintherough]@PinkMochi I am vaccinated and no longer particularly worried about COVID but I would like there to be a hospital bed available for my mum or dad if they catch it and need one. I'd also like my friend's 1 year post treatment breast screening to not be delayed further and I'd like to be able to see a neurologist at some point so I'd like the nhs to have some spare capacity.[/quote]
One of my closest family members passed away because his appointments were cancelled and delayed. He was not seen in time. Covid19 was prioritised over really serious and fatal/life changing conditions. Blame the NHS big bosses for poor budgeting and limiting the number of people who can see consultants. It’s their fault, not the general public.

@Porcupineintherough oh and just to add - I haven’t been able to see a gynaecologist and I’m scared shitless about my condition. Who do I blame? The NHS bosses and government for the mismanagement of the NHS and prioritising a virus (which is mild for most people) over all other conditions. I don’t blame other patients!

Likely both, I should think. NHS mismanagement/underfunding yes, but also more and more reports showing beds are occupied by the unvaxxed now.

@User63896578

It will be like this in all he EU soon, it was in the paper yesterday, fortunately we left.

I think based on this, that we can be reasonably confident that it won't happen in England as this is presenting the opportunity for a massive political win for Boris in defence of Brexit.