Vaccines for travel fatigue

[Lostinacloud]

Does anybody else feel very down about the world slowly closing down to adults and children who haven’t been vaccinated or who haven’t had the latest booster?

Judging by case numbers everywhere, the fact vaccines don’t really appear to stop spread or last much longer than a few months, coupled with the recent border closures and mandatory pcr and isolation travel changes in response to omnicron, (regardless of vaccination status) the fact someone is vaccinated doesn’t seem to hold much weight in the argument that a vaccinated person has more freedom to travel.

I sincerely hope all this is fairly temporary but where does this situation leave a whole heap of people if not?

Those who had bad reactions to previous vaccines and don’t want another one but aren’t entitled to exemption which seems to be harder to get than hen’s teeth.
Those who have had covid and survived and know they are no threat to hospital space and don’t really like the idea of endless vaccines
Those who have severe needle phobias
Those who choose not to vaccinate their healthy teens or children.
Those who simply choose not to take the offer of vaccination for whatever their personal reason.

All of the above (or perhaps most) could take a test and ensure they are negative before travelling but slowly and surely countries are closing off to non vaccinated travellers and this is now starting to include over 12’s. I’m sure once the full rollout of 5-11 year olds has had time, these entry rules will apply to them too. Where does that leave family holidays, trips to visit relatives, school ski trips or school overseas experiences?

The whole thing doesn’t make scientific sense anymore now that we know what we know about vaccine effectiveness and yet it continues to become more and more likely that only the vaccinated, or in fact recently boosted, will be able to travel.

Will the majority of people ever consider this wrong or will everyone just keep getting vaccinated and vaccinating their whole families no matter what the risk or personal benefit just so they can travel?

But how many young people are in ICU preCovid?

Not many I’ll reckon…

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But how many young people are in ICU preCovid?

Not many I’ll reckon…

What does it matter though at the end of the day? You can throw out stats until you are blue in the face but it about choice isn't it?

People who have chosen to not get vaccinated like to bang on about choice a lot, therefore I would assume that they would appreciate the fact that governments also get to choose who they let into their countries? It is all choices isn't it?

Well it matters because it’s being used as an argument that they are in ICU and then have been discovered whilst in ICU for something else, that they have Covid.

But the amount of young people in ICU for reasons other than Covid must be minute.

I’ve never known anyone young in my life time which is quite long in ICU.

So the argument is pointless. Hardly any young people are in ICU

It would be very hard to insist that people breathe through their noses, as a public health measure.

Pretty much impossible in my case thanks to a permanently blocked nose!

Last year I was told I should stay indoors as I have a persistent cough, now I don't breathe properly!

That’s because people that have chosen to get vaccinated and take all the boosters necessary for them to retain their vaccine passport don’t seem to be able to appreciate that there really isn’t a free choice. They are not affected by the restrictions placed on the normal life of people in positions that I listed in the OP. If the restrictions made scientific sense maybe more people could understand them but they don’t.

What if you weren’t able to travel abroad anymore unless you could prove that you only ate organically, had no meat, no processed food, alcohol or sugar? Technically you might be a healthier person and less likely to need hospital treatment for obesity or diabetes but you would like the choice to eat birthday cake on your DC’s birthday and have a wine or two of your own. Despite other factors like your age and overall health and risk of diabetes meaning that you are unlikely to require hospital treatment you would like the choice to have a few chocolate bars now and again and are not happy this means you won’t be able to go on holiday or visit relatives abroad. But hey it’s a choice right?

I appreciate that example is a bit ridiculous and no doubt it will swiftly be pointed out to me that diabetes isn’t a virus but that’s not the point. The point is that until you face the limitation on your freedom based upon what you choose to put or not put into your body, no matter what your personal risk factors are, perhaps you won’t truly appreciate how awful the situation is if not temporary while we get through the winter season.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow I asked those questions because the stats posted said hospitalisations, not icu admissions. That’s important because younger people might be on all sorts of wards for other reasons but yet tested positive for Covid and so are counted in the numbers. But hospitalised doesn’t mean severely ill with covid.

But the same argument applies.

The majority of hospital beds are not occupied by young people

Of course they are! Just this year alone my own DS was in hospital for 3 nights for surgery and one of my 20 year old relatives was admitted for appendicitis

No, that is impossible. Hospital admission is defined by age. The older you are the more likely you will need hospital treatment.

Young people are the least likely to be in hospital, it would be very small numbers.

I am totally confused by the different arguments. Each country will decide who they want to travel to their country whilst the pandemic continues and what rules and regulations should apply with regards to vaccination status and testing etc. UK doesn't give much of a shit. France will insist on boosters. Spain won't admit single vaccinated teens. Etc etc. It's like there is a war on, to find a simple analogy. Some people can travel to certain places and some people can't. People in UK can't sit and whine about not being able to go on holiday because there is absolutely nothing they can do to change the policies of other countries. "But it's not fair" just doesn't cut it anymore. If Omicron gets a grip in UK or elsewhere, the restrictions will only get tighter.

I feel really weird about it. I used to go abroad a lot and then pre-Covid had a year or two off from holidays abroad due to having a new baby and whatnot. It’s been ages now. It’s also now an environmental thing. Maybe we should just not expect to go abroad so much? I feel weird that my last time abroad I didn’t know it was my last time (of all the countries and all the holidays and trips I’ve had.. THAT was the one to end it on?!). It was such a major part of my life in many ways as I’ve lived in several countries and travelled for work so much .. and now I’m a SAHM who hasn’t left the country in over 3 years. Compared to a lot of changes we’ve all been through it’s nothing really, but at the same time it’s like I’ve woken up with a different life.

I am vaccinated but young DC aren’t obviously. I’m also just nervous at how fast the rules change and keeping up with what is required in terms of testing, mask requirements for children. At the moment we could travel most places I think because DC are young but presumably the one that is 5+ would be expected to be vaccinated next summer by half the places we’d want to go so I’m already assuming 2022 is ruled out too.

@Lostinacloud

So everyone here so far is happy to get vaccinated every 3-6 months and their children too, regardless of the risk of side effects to young children we don’t even know about yet just so they can travel?

And no it really isn’t the unvaccinated taking up all the hospital beds and causing high cases in many countries. There are multiple examples of extremely highly vaccinated countries or regions where cases are at record highs, or were recently - Israel, Cyprus, Gibraltar, England, Ireland to name but a few.

This recent analysis of Northern Ireland hospital admissions demonstrates that hospitalisations are near enough equal between unvaccinated or vaccinated patients and in older groups vaccinated patients make up the vast majority.

Negative tests I could understand, just vaccinated I just can’t.

You're getting confused. The numbers may be similar in hospital admissions but many more people proportionally are vaccinated. The ICU numbers are considerably biased towards the unvaccinated.

Most governments are on the same page.
If you want to travel - have a vaccination. If you don't - stop whingeing.

The EU is strongly discouraging travel even between member states at the moment.

I caught covid in March 2020, as a healthy person in my 30s. No pre-existing conditions, healthy weight and fairly fit. 20 months later I'm still too ill to work, too ill to exercise and occasionally too ill to get out of bed. My memory is damaged, my thinking is damaged. I sometimes can't manage to remember how to write my own name.

I can't fathom why anyone would pick this path if they could avoid it. I was queuing outside when the vaccination centre open. Everyone in my family who is eligible is vaccinated. We're still not travelling internationally as we want to do our bit to help limit the spread, to stop anyone else going through what I've been through.

Yes, lockdowns and restrictions aren't great but nor is being disabled by long covid. You've the right not to be vaccinated, but other countries have the right to stop you coming in and bringing potential new strains.

Whatever people think about vaccines, it's going to be impossible to save the tourist industry unless countries agree about boosters. In France we have to have our booster within 7 months of our second dose or lose our pass sanitaire - even though some of us will already have had their boosters AFTER the seven-month deadline but BEFORE the rule about the seven-month deadline was made! And tourists coming during the ski season who were vaccinated before mid-June but didn't get boosted for whatever reason will fall foul of this rule, presumably - so no eating out for them.

(Mine was 7 months and one day after jab 2 so will expire on 15 January and I'll have to start the course again. So that will be 4 or possibly 5 jabs in a year for me if I want to be able to go to restaurants, attractions or even outdoor events.)

-* how many of those in the younger age groups are in icu? How many are in for other reasons but happen to have tested positive for Covid. How many are actually ill with covid or only remain admitted for treatment for other ailments.
That table doesn’t tell us and since it is accepted that somewhere around 30-40% of all cases are picked up in hospital settings, I don’t think these figures alone can be relied upon to tell the whole story.*

No but they can relied upon to prove that pro rata more unvaccinated than vaccinated are in hospital thus showing the vaccines have worked in respect of keeping them out of hospital for COVID related issues

@Lostinacloud I completely agree with everything you have said. I felt really bullied into getting my vaccines and now two months on I’m on the brink of ‘qualifying’ for my booster 🤗
When will it end? How many vaccines will we all be expected to pump into our bodies in order to continue to be deemed fully vaccinated. I just can’t get my head around the fact that so many people jump at the boosters with no concern about cumulative impact on their health! I’m not anti vaccines, not on social media at all - this is just my point of view. I also can’t get my head around the fact that this point of view is considered radical or extreme in some way. I feel like I’m living in a parallel universe when I come into MN these days.

Don't care about people who refuse to get vaccinated.

They can holiday at home forever.

We will all get all vaccinations and travel as and when we can.

It's not just the UK though, many countries demand tests and vaccination on entry and we can't tell them what to do. So yes get vaccinated or don't travel.

Ho hum still don't care would rather not be sharing a plane with anti vaxxers anyway.

They can holiday at home forever.

Believe me, my life will be much happier holidaying in the UK rather than having to be vaccinated every 3, 6, 12 months. I don't actually want to travel at the moment. Where's the pleasure in testing, stressing about rules changing, whether or not you'll be able to go or not?

The WHO has suggested that people who are over 60 or vulnerable don't travel.

It isn't just the unvaccinated who are a bit limited travelwise by circumstances right now.

I thought it was unvaccinated over 60s who shouldn't travel? DH is 67 and so we won't be going far anyway if it's all over 60s!

@Lostinacloud and for anyone else affected by the travel issues in the OP, PM me and I’ll let you know of the travel insurance I have just found: provides Covid cover if not fully vaccinated and includes cancellation Covid if you have to isolate.

(I’ve PM’d you)