Vaccines for travel fatigue

[Lostinacloud]

Does anybody else feel very down about the world slowly closing down to adults and children who haven’t been vaccinated or who haven’t had the latest booster?

Judging by case numbers everywhere, the fact vaccines don’t really appear to stop spread or last much longer than a few months, coupled with the recent border closures and mandatory pcr and isolation travel changes in response to omnicron, (regardless of vaccination status) the fact someone is vaccinated doesn’t seem to hold much weight in the argument that a vaccinated person has more freedom to travel.

I sincerely hope all this is fairly temporary but where does this situation leave a whole heap of people if not?

Those who had bad reactions to previous vaccines and don’t want another one but aren’t entitled to exemption which seems to be harder to get than hen’s teeth.
Those who have had covid and survived and know they are no threat to hospital space and don’t really like the idea of endless vaccines
Those who have severe needle phobias
Those who choose not to vaccinate their healthy teens or children.
Those who simply choose not to take the offer of vaccination for whatever their personal reason.

All of the above (or perhaps most) could take a test and ensure they are negative before travelling but slowly and surely countries are closing off to non vaccinated travellers and this is now starting to include over 12’s. I’m sure once the full rollout of 5-11 year olds has had time, these entry rules will apply to them too. Where does that leave family holidays, trips to visit relatives, school ski trips or school overseas experiences?

The whole thing doesn’t make scientific sense anymore now that we know what we know about vaccine effectiveness and yet it continues to become more and more likely that only the vaccinated, or in fact recently boosted, will be able to travel.

Will the majority of people ever consider this wrong or will everyone just keep getting vaccinated and vaccinating their whole families no matter what the risk or personal benefit just so they can travel?

@Lostinacloud
If ‘the whole thing doesn’t make scientific sense anymore’, as you say in your OP, why would all these very different countries and their scientific advisors react in this way? What could be their motivation? Especially those who cause great damage to their economies by restricting travel? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Never has a hamsterarse made so much sense
You have better explained the point I have been trying to make about the given BBC et al stats.
It is not as clear cut and the overriding fact remains that the vaccinated can carry and spread Covid as well as the unvaccinated so allowing non tested vaccinated people into your country makes almost less sense than allowing either a vaccinated or unvaccinated person in with a negative test. Just because a person is unvaccinated does not mean they are going to be constantly infected with covid 24/7.

@samsalmon, yes I do. Most world governments appear to want the entire population of the world vaccinated. For what end there are many theories but afraid I can’t believe anymore that it is for the good of mankind because the program makes less and less scientific sense as we go further on and on. Not all populations and demographics are affected in the same way and yet everyone, including young children with excellently adaptive immune systems, needs continual vaccinations? Natural immunity has apparently disappeared from existence and fear has been used as a psychological way of asserting compliance.

Re superspreaders, all the more reason for masks surely?

As well as vaccines.

It would be very hard to insist that people breathe through their noses, as a public health measure.

And losing weight is possible but would take quite a long time and a lot of motivation and commitment (though that is also a public health issue).

So vaccines and masks it is.

@Lostinacloud

Never has a hamsterarse made so much sense You have better explained the point I have been trying to make about the given BBC et al stats. It is not as clear cut and the overriding fact remains that the vaccinated can carry and spread Covid as well as the unvaccinated so allowing non tested vaccinated people into your country makes almost less sense than allowing either a vaccinated or unvaccinated person in with a negative test. Just because a person is unvaccinated does not mean they are going to be constantly infected with covid 24/7.

But nobody is allowing non tested vaccinated people in as far as I know? PCRs required everywhere for everyone.

@herecomesthsun

Re superspreaders, all the more reason for masks surely?

As well as vaccines.

It would be very hard to insist that people breathe through their noses, as a public health measure.

And losing weight is possible but would take quite a long time and a lot of motivation and commitment (though that is also a public health issue).

So vaccines and masks it is.

Wouldn't take much to mention nose breathing though would it?

Most people have probably never even considered it.

I only mentioned it as a way of pointing out the blanket "You must get vaccinated to be able to have a normal life" totally lacks any scientific relevance at the individual level.

The media are publishing articles by NHS staff claiming that most COVID19 patients in intensive care are UNvaccinated.

This is incorrect. The majority are VACCINATED. This is by virtue of the disproportionately large vaxxed population, but these media claims are FALSE.

Watch the video

twitter.com/Politic56721677/status/1466068130363584512?s=20

But nobody is allowing non tested vaccinated people in as far as I know? PCRs required everywhere for everyone.

I went to France at the end of summer. Vaccine passports only. No testing needed.

@Lostinacloud I agree with you. Whole thing is crazy. Forcing people to have an mNRA vaccine which is so new and not understanding or having compassion about people who are hesitant. It makes no sense. If more traditional kinds of vaccines like novavax were made available, maybe more of the hesitant people would come forward to be vaccinated but the market is saturated by mNRA. It's depressing. Choice is being taken away completely for a disease that seems to be getting milder and milder. I am double vaccinated because I chose to be but I'm nervous about 3-6 monthly boosters. My husband isn't vaccinated as he is worried about mNRA vaccines but would happily take a different one but not available here and never have been. He would never force his fears on others though. I'm terrified of education mandates for children as there's no way I would want my children to have a vaccine against this yet. They've had all there others though before I'm called anti vaccine. I can't bear hesitant people being called Anti vaccine. It's so unbearably aggressive.

@Lostinacloud, thanks for your reply. I’m all for natural immunity and robust health whenever possible. But I still understand why global scientific leaders and government advisors would go along with something which ‘makes no sense’. If anything, in a country like the UK, the government holds back more than their scientific advisors would like them to, because of the need to balance economic and social factors.

My own view is that these heavy handed responses are far from ideal, but have been considered to be necessary for now, while we grapple with the unknown and its potential consequences. Hopefully, it will all be temporary. I dislike some of the psychological manipulation we’ve all experienced so I agree with you on that. But I do largely trust that governments and their scientific advisors are acting in good faith.

Wow this thread is getting weird. I would still like to know which country allows vaccinated people to enter without getting tested. I think the majority of countries require both vaccination and testing for everyone.

*I still DON’T understand, I meant to say

@TomelettewithGreggs

Wow this thread is getting weird. I would still like to know which country allows vaccinated people to enter without getting tested. I think the majority of countries require both vaccination and testing for everyone.

Just gave an example. France.

@TomelettewithGreggs

Wow this thread is getting weird. I would still like to know which country allows vaccinated people to enter without getting tested. I think the majority of countries require both vaccination and testing for everyone.

We were in Spain in October and it was testing or a vaccination, not both. Might have changed now, though.

@TomelettewithGreggs

Wow this thread is getting weird. I would still like to know which country allows vaccinated people to enter without getting tested. I think the majority of countries require both vaccination and testing for everyone.

Also - Scotland - their entry into clubs etc is vaccine passport without being tested

If you are not vaccinated - LFT

Just saw your response. I think that will soon change. The Netherlands for instance requires a PCR test for the vaxxed too.

@Lostinacloud For what end there are many theories but afraid I can’t believe anymore that it is for the good of mankind because the program makes less and less scientific sense as we go further on and on

I’m sorry but do you have any qualifications in this area? You showed above you don’t even understand simple statistics yet boldly claim vaccinations makes no scientific sense.

The amount of armchair experts on covid without even basic maths is absolutely laughable.

@TomelettewithGreggs

Wow this thread is getting weird. I would still like to know which country allows vaccinated people to enter without getting tested. I think the majority of countries require both vaccination and testing for everyone.

Mexico you can go unvaxxed - that's why their tourism industry is booming and the maldives as well I think .....

@TomelettewithGreggs

Just saw your response. I think that will soon change. The Netherlands for instance requires a PCR test for the vaxxed too.

Oh right.

So our closest neighbours do not require vaccinated people to be tested and you have just been saying repeatedly that no country would do that....and that is your response?

The vaccine passports don't achieve anything, we all know that, because vaccinated people can still get Covid and still pass it on. It's just a fact.

I'd be more inclined to say that the rules may change the other way and revert back to relying on testing more. And at least that would make sense.

@TomelettewithGreggs until Omnicron, most of Europe allowed no test entry for vaccinated travellers. Much of Europe also has domestic vaccine passports which allow untested entry into restaurants, gyms, libraries, museums, leisure centres etc for vaccinated people but not unvaccinated unless they have recently had a negative test.

@NollaigNollaig at this stage I don’t think many of us need specific epidemiology qualifications. The data is easily available and understandable to all and I am capable of reading widely and critical thinking.

I support people’s choice to be vaccinated or not, but I suspect if they want to travel they will need to comply. They are being boxed into a corner really.

[quote Lostinacloud]@NollaigNollaig at this stage I don’t think many of us need specific epidemiology qualifications. The data is easily available and understandable to all and I am capable of reading widely and critical thinking.[/quote]
Gosh how sad for all those scientists who studied so hard in their degrees, masters and PhD when their work can now be easily understood by Joe bloggs who ‘reads widely’

Also what do you mean it’s easily available and understandable? You showed in your earlier posts that you don’t understand basic statistics. It’s quite clear you are not capable of reading and understanding it. Any critical thinking based off incorrect interpretations of data is not worth much.

I am not the one arguing that fat people be banned from travelling! I am prepared to be corrected on most European countries allowing the vaxxed to travel without PCRs but in any case that is now changing everywhere surely? The future is both. Because one or the other not effective enough.

I don't really care to be honest. If people choose to be unvaccinated that's up to them but I'm not wasting any energy feeling sorry for them if they are stopped from doing certain things. There are far bigger things to worry about.