Anti vaxxers question *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[whywouldntyou]

Watching the local news last week our local hospitals ITU is 6/8 full with covid patients. All unvaccinated. Youngest is 20 with no underlying heath conditions. I am continually hearing about covid patients in or just out of ITU saying 'I wish I'd got the jab'.

How do you (as an anti vaxxer) reconcile your attitude but still expecting to be treated in ITU? If they said ' right, no jab, no ITU bed' would you still refuse the vaccine?

What would it (genuinely) take for you to have the jab having seen all the other anti vaxxers encouraging people to have it after realising how ill they were?

If the vaccines don't reduce transmission, why has the R rate been relatively stable in the UK for some time, with no significant restrictions?

Sweden has one of the worst mortality rates, and studies have shown that due to population density if the Uk had followed the Swedish model twice as many people would have died here.

www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9

Blimey, my first deletion. And am assuming that I’m the one being referred to as a bully.

Sorry, but I’m not going to stop calling out posters who post rubbish. It’s not about whether or not you’ve had the vaccine - personal choice and all that. It’s about calling out the drivel that gets posted as reasons. If it’s incorrect, then expect to be pulled up on it.

I’m reintroducing my self-imposed ban from this board as the regular rubbish posted is ridiculous.

Fully vaccinated here, will take the booster too as I'd like to travel and can see it being necessary although I've had covid and have no health conditions to put me at higher risk.

I HATE hearing this nonsense of no vaccine, no itu bed. Do we just stop treating the overweight too? The smokers? Drinkers? Anyone who gets in an accident where they were deemed partly responsible? It's absolutely idiotic to suggest that, especially for something where they are only putting themselves at risk by not vaccinating and shouldn't we all have a choice about what risks we take with ourselves??

I live in an EU country with one of the highest death rates and one of the lowest rates of vaccination. Some correlation do you think @Bluepinkyellowcakes? And a lot of the more recent deaths have included young and fit adults and teenagers.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

Besides, I've posted links from gov UK and apparently they weren't good enough.

No. Your understanding was utterly lacking.

Anyone can read for themselves what you linked to and what you said you though it meant. The first page or two hasn't had deletions, so your posts are still there.

Might, might not as this comment shows. You are happy to play Russian Roulette with your own health and that of others. That isn't acceptable

And for those trying to make a pint that altruism forms no part in getting vaccinated: the whole idea of vaccination, public health scemes are altruistic. Everyone that can gets vaccinated for the general good of the population. YOU may not want to, you may choose to ridicule the idea thant anyone does. But still it happens, her in the UK.

If you chose to read data presented on this thread alone you'd know that!

Please can you provide links to the articles you've seen

Ignore that, it was in response to now deleted posts. It hadn't updated

@IHateFlies

There are actual scientists who believe that only the vulnerable should have been protected and everyone else should have have carried on as normal. Very similar to how Sweden managed it. Scientists who believe that not everyone needs vaccination, especially those who have recovered from covid. It’s not right to abuse and shut everyone down if they have a different opinion. The route most of the western world took may not have been the best with hindsight. Lockdowns had serious implications for many vulnerable people, many people still died yet others who wanted to discuss a different approach were dismissed.

gbdeclaration.org

Great barrington Declaration says just that

Mob mentality in this thread.

People who are incapable of communicating in a rational and inoffensive manner.

People who are incapable of having a debate.

There hasn't been any misinformation .

There is just a point blank refusal to respect that people are free to make their own decisions.

Those that constantly berate and shut down discussion are in no way intellectually or morally superior to those they treat this way.

@Lilifer

From wiki :
"The Great Barrington Declaration was sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian free market think tank associated with climate change denial."

[quote berrylands]@Lilifer

From wiki :
"The Great Barrington Declaration was sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian free market think tank associated with climate change denial."[/quote]
If you choose to follow those people over public health specialists it's because you have already made your mind and no amount of data will change that

My mum is in her 50s, an anti vaxxer, she just spent 10 days in hospital on an oxygen machine and 8 days in bed at home prior to that. Unfortunately her opinion hasn’t changed and it makes me sad…

@Bluepinkyellowcakes i'm reading your posts thinking this could be me writing as well. I feel exactly the same and to see you stick to your views, opinions against the other posters(bullies) on here is impressive. No amount of 'persuasion' will 'talk me into' getting a vaccine of which we now need 3 doses. Many of those hospitalized are double-jabbed yet the 'protection' the vaccine gives is wearing off so 'logically' we should dose ourselves up again with a Booster (who know's the 4th one perhaps in Spring, 5th in summer) Many i know have had a worse time handling the vaccine than when they came down with COVID. I'd never force my opinion on others and i accept others wanting to make their own personal choices but it's just ludicrous what's happening right now!

[quote Naimee87]@Bluepinkyellowcakes i'm reading your posts thinking this could be me writing as well. I feel exactly the same and to see you stick to your views, opinions against the other posters(bullies) on here is impressive. No amount of 'persuasion' will 'talk me into' getting a vaccine of which we now need 3 doses. Many of those hospitalized are double-jabbed yet the 'protection' the vaccine gives is wearing off so 'logically' we should dose ourselves up again with a Booster (who know's the 4th one perhaps in Spring, 5th in summer) Many i know have had a worse time handling the vaccine than when they came down with COVID. I'd never force my opinion on others and i accept others wanting to make their own personal choices but it's just ludicrous what's happening right now![/quote]
I agree. Bluepinkyellowcakes has made her case with clarity and restraint without resorting to mud slinging unlike several posters on here. I really respect that. I am pro vax but the way some of the pro vax people behave on here with their aggressive and patronising intolerance is pathetic and does nothing to further their argument.

[quote Naimee87]@Bluepinkyellowcakes i'm reading your posts thinking this could be me writing as well. I feel exactly the same and to see you stick to your views, opinions against the other posters(bullies) on here is impressive. No amount of 'persuasion' will 'talk me into' getting a vaccine of which we now need 3 doses. Many of those hospitalized are double-jabbed yet the 'protection' the vaccine gives is wearing off so 'logically' we should dose ourselves up again with a Booster (who know's the 4th one perhaps in Spring, 5th in summer) Many i know have had a worse time handling the vaccine than when they came down with COVID. I'd never force my opinion on others and i accept others wanting to make their own personal choices but it's just ludicrous what's happening right now![/quote]
Vaccines are for everyone... Thats why we routinely vaccinate babies for MMR etc. The whole point is to get to a level where the virus cant easily circulate. I despair at these sort of posts, but at least you can rely on enough of us to look after you.

"If you choose to follow those people over public health specialists it's because you have already made your mind and no amount of data will change that"*
*
*
Berrylands I will happily take advice from the likes of Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Martin Kulldorff, from Stanford, Oxford and Harvard universities respectively, who co wrote the declaration - are you more highly qualified than they are?

Have you actually read the declaration or did you just dismiss it without fact-checking?

@Lilifer

* "If you choose to follow those people over public health specialists it's because you have already made your mind and no amount of data will change that"* * * Berrylands I will happily take advice from the likes of Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Martin Kulldorff, from Stanford, Oxford and Harvard universities respectively, who co wrote the declaration - are you more highly qualified than they are?

Have you actually read the declaration or did you just dismiss it without fact-checking?

I decided to read it for myself and make up my own mind, maybe you prefer wiki to do your research for you.

[quote Naimee87]@Bluepinkyellowcakes i'm reading your posts thinking this could be me writing as well. I feel exactly the same and to see you stick to your views, opinions against the other posters(bullies) on here is impressive. No amount of 'persuasion' will 'talk me into' getting a vaccine of which we now need 3 doses. Many of those hospitalized are double-jabbed yet the 'protection' the vaccine gives is wearing off so 'logically' we should dose ourselves up again with a Booster (who know's the 4th one perhaps in Spring, 5th in summer) Many i know have had a worse time handling the vaccine than when they came down with COVID. I'd never force my opinion on others and i accept others wanting to make their own personal choices but it's just ludicrous what's happening right now![/quote]
I'm sure you must be able to imagine that much of the consistent, evidence based pushback to such posts is down to sheer exasperation and a desire to ensure that every post full of opinion and misinformation is countered by disagreement and more robust data.

The 'bullying' us just a repeated 'No! That's not how it works'.

@Lilifer please can you elaborate what does that declaration say about vaccination? I have read it but I just want to know what you mean linking it on this thread.

[quote Nchangsd]@Lilifer please can you elaborate what does that declaration say about vaccination? I have read it but I just want to know what you mean linking it on this thread.[/quote]

You want to know what I mean by linking it to the thread?

I linked to it as it was relevant to what Ihateflies posted at 12.47pm today regarding impact of lockdowns.

This is a discussion isn't it?

If you have read the declaration why are you asking me to explain it for you? 🤷‍♀️

Fortunately ant-vaxers are declining in number. Some of the prominent ones are dead and their families regret that. www.sorryantivaxxer.com/

Our vaccination percentages keep quietly increasing, even if very slowly, as more people realise that they were misled and that other people who were regretted that before they died.

Even one vaccine gives you a bit of help against covid and maybe means you wont kill other people and possibly yourself, after your ICU care has deprived others of much needed healthcare.

@alreadytaken

Fortunately ant-vaxers are declining in number. Some of the prominent ones are dead and their families regret that. www.sorryantivaxxer.com/

Our vaccination percentages keep quietly increasing, even if very slowly, as more people realise that they were misled and that other people who were regretted that before they died.

Even one vaccine gives you a bit of help against covid and maybe means you wont kill other people and possibly yourself, after your ICU care has deprived others of much needed healthcare.

It is "fortunate" that anti-vaxxers are dying?

Wow.

It would be awful if people who have been misled by antivaxxers are dying. I'm sure some are but it's hardly something to gloat about.

If you mean that numbers are reducing because people are seeing the sense in vaccinating, unfortunately not on a wider scale. Children's routine vaccinations are down this year. I assume because antivax misinformation is much more visible and obvious than it ever has been before, so it's reaching more people perhaps who would not have questioned vaccines before.