Will the Government actually follow through on their threat to sack NHS staff?

[DontWantTheRivalry]

I work in a very large city hospital, we are also a specialist trauma centre with Helipad access (just to give you an idea of how large a hospital it is).

I found out yesterday that almost 13% of the medical staff are unvaccinated.

Surely that number of staff can’t just be fired? How do they expect a hospital to function with such a mass exodus whilst already dealing with staff shortages in nearly every department.

It’s very worrying.

It wasn't a condition of employment when they took their jobs. Unless they started working for the NHS in the last 6 months or so.

Vaccines shouldn't be mandatory for anyone who was working in the NHS before the vaccines became available. We should all be able to choose our medications.

My daughter works for NHS and she and a lot of her colleagues caught covid before vaccines were even available.

@Tumbleweed101

My daughter works for NHS and she and a lot of her colleagues caught covid before vaccines were even available.

Then a positive antibody test should suffice. NHS staff don't have Hep B jabs if they have previous immunity.

@NdujaWannaDance

Surely that number of staff can’t just be fired? How do they expect a hospital to function with such a mass exodus whilst already dealing with staff shortages in nearly every department.

It’s very worrying.

I think you are worrying about the wrong thing. Worry about why 13% of your medical staff are thick enough to think that they are statistically taking less of a risk by refusing the vaccine than by getting it. I'd be questioning whether I'd want to be treated in a hospital where over 10% of the HCPs were that stupid.

Where has anyone seen risk stratified data for vaccine vs covid? I've never seen it.

I can quite imagine why staff might refuse a vaccine

• Previous infection: all risk, zero benefit
• Young & fit: likely more risk from vaccine
• Seen lots of vaccine related side effects
• vaccines don't stop infection or transmission

I don't think that's stupid. It's filling in the gaps in the absence of relevant data from the MHRA. If they don't want people to do that, they should share the data.

the government played a blinder there by not announcing the NHS mandate until after the social care deadline so no one outseide social care was really bothered about it. So now we have increasing numbers of people stuck in hospital, essentially bed-blocking, because there is no more capacity in social care

Just going to bold this, as I don't think people really appreciate the problems this has caused!!

@Rattysparklebum

Employers have responsibilities to protect their staff too, an unvaccinated staff member should not be put at risk of catching a potentially fatal disease when the risk can be reduced by a vaccine, therefore staff should have the vaccine or they have to be deployed to safer roles which does not make best use of their skills and experience and is probably not cost effective.

If they are to be redeployed in my trust....it will be to the salary of the new job.....so in reality a clinical nurse with face to face contact will likely only be able to move to a band 2 Or 3 admin job.....As others jobs all have some face to face patient contact.....they will no longer work as a Registered nurse and their pay will be greatly reduced as will their future pension..... how many people do you think will do this ?? I’m thinking not many....they will just quietly get the jab and move o

I'd also like to add that to date I don't know of a single person who has either been hospitalized or has died from Covid.

Oh well, panic over everyone! @doublemonkey doesn't know anyone who has been hospitalised or died of Covid, therefore it isn't happening.

@gofg

I'd also like to add that to date I don't know of a single person who has either been hospitalized or has died from Covid.

Oh well, panic over everyone! @doublemonkey doesn't know anyone who has been hospitalised or died of Covid, therefore it isn't happening.

I don't know why you're being sarcastic, I'm just stating a fact. There's seems remarkably few of them around these days.

And FYI in the post before I said I'd had Covid, and like millions of others in the country suffered no more than an odd cold.

I'd also like to add that to date I don't know of a single person who has either been hospitalized or has died from Covid.

Same here but my brother In law was hospitalised due to vaccine and is on medicine for rest of his life.

I've had both vaccines and booked in for my booster. But to.pretend nothing is happening is silly.

@morticiamarkle

Previous infection: all risk, zero benefit
Untrue - plenty of evidence out there now showing vaccinated reduces risk of reinfection (linked on many threads)
Young & fit: likely more risk from vaccine
Benefit risk analysis still demonstrates vaccination is safer than infection
Seen lots of vaccine related side effects
All medications have side effects - the coronavirus vaccines do not appear to have a worse profile than previous vaccines (waiting for the onslaught of VAERS links)
vaccines don't stop infection or transmission
they significantly reduce both

@Againstmachine

I'd also like to add that to date I don't know of a single person who has either been hospitalized or has died from Covid.

Same here but my brother In law was hospitalised due to vaccine and is on medicine for rest of his life.

I've had both vaccines and booked in for my booster. But to.pretend nothing is happening is silly.

noone is pretending there aren't vaccine side effects

noone is pretending there aren't vaccine side effects

Except there are many on here have it what ever. And yes I have been vaccinated. Strangely that's why I have no fear of unvaccinated people

I don't know why you're being sarcastic, I'm just stating a fact. There's seems remarkably few of them around these days. @doublemonkey

Why do you think the fact that you personally don't know someone who has died of COVID trumps the fact that there have been ~5 million deaths so far

long term complications not an issue? people dying of non-COVID issues because there aren't staff/beds due to saturation of coronavirus patients?

@Againstmachine

noone is pretending there aren't vaccine side effects

Except there are many on here have it what ever. And yes I have been vaccinated. Strangely that's why I have no fear of unvaccinated people

not sure I understand your reply @Againstmachine

I don't think anyone is personally afraid of "unvaccinated people"

nor is being unvaccinated a reason to fear someone who isn't vaccinated...

mandating it for staff is all about reducing chains of transmission in a hospital setting

It’s not just the nhs tho
It’s every business or organisation, school prison, care home, special school or whatever covered by the cqc

Every single doctors practice. Every single dental practice. every single optician practice chiropractor special school, every prison all care homes all children’s homes

That’s a lot of staff to fire Where on earth would they get the new staff from??

I'd also like to add that to date I don't know of a single person who has either been hospitalized or has died from Covid.

Same here but my brother In law was hospitalised due to vaccine and is on medicine for rest of his life.

Okay, since it seems that we are going to continue to play this silly game, I don't know, and haven't heard of, a single person who had anything other than an extremely mild reaction to the vaccine, with most having nothing at all.

Satisfied?

I don't think anyone is personally afraid of "unvaccinated people"

Except I think many people are it's like they are great unwashed.

Do you work in a hospital because I sib contract and the NHS chains of contact or scary

doublemonkey

Yes I'm aware of his situation it's just awful.

As expected he's been getting a lot of abuse just from telling his story .

However , there are plenty of right minded compassionate people who listen and feel for him and others like him.

@doublemonkey

Lot's of us don't want to have the vaccine. We should be able to make informed choices about what we put in our bodies.

No one is stopping you declining the vaccination

@Againstmachine

I don't think anyone is personally afraid of "unvaccinated people"

Except I think many people are it's like they are great unwashed.

Do you work in a hospital because I sib contract and the NHS chains of contact or scary

I'm sure there are posters on MN who say that, but equally there are people saying the vaccines cause cancer/AI diseases and linking people like John Campbell.

In regards to the NHS, it's about reducing chains of transmission.

Do you work in a hospital because I sib contract and the NHS chains of contact or scary
Not sure what you mean here sorry?

@leafyygreens

I don't know why you're being sarcastic, I'm just stating a fact. There's seems remarkably few of them around these days. *@doublemonkey*

Why do you think the fact that you personally don't know someone who has died of COVID trumps the fact that there have been ~5 million deaths so far

long term complications not an issue? people dying of non-COVID issues because there aren't staff/beds due to saturation of coronavirus patients?

5 million out of 8 billion people. The loss of life is terrible but it has to be measured against other factors.

In reality only a tiny percentage of people have serious complications or die of Covid.

If you're worried about NHS staffing levels and beds then maybe you could lend your voice to the growing number of us who are adamantly against vaccine mandates and who would like to see hospitals and GP surgeries running as normal again.

@ktel1

doublemonkey

Yes I'm aware of his situation it's just awful.

As expected he's been getting a lot of abuse just from telling his story .

However , there are plenty of right minded compassionate people who listen and feel for him and others like him.

What do you mean? It is an interview with a man called Kyle, who has pericarditis after vaccination.

Why would he be getting abuse for this? It's a known side effect of the mRNA vaccinations.

My male, 32 YO friend also had this after vacciantion. Recieved nothing but support. Fortunately was self limiting and resolved on it's own a couple of weeks after it flared up.

Do you work in a hospital because I sib contract and the NHS chains of contact or scary
Not sure what you mean here sorry?

If you work In NHS many of the staff are most unlean people going , half of them can't flush a toilet or leave toilet paper ove the floor.

You aren't going to prevent contact trust me.

@gofg

I'd also like to add that to date I don't know of a single person who has either been hospitalized or has died from Covid.

Same here but my brother In law was hospitalised due to vaccine and is on medicine for rest of his life.

Okay, since it seems that we are going to continue to play this silly game, I don't know, and haven't heard of, a single person who had anything other than an extremely mild reaction to the vaccine, with most having nothing at all.

Satisfied?

Funny you should bring that up because both my parents suffered blood clots following the vaccine shots and I know of one person who died two days after his first jab of arterial thrombosis.