Will the Government actually follow through on their threat to sack NHS staff?

[DontWantTheRivalry]

I work in a very large city hospital, we are also a specialist trauma centre with Helipad access (just to give you an idea of how large a hospital it is).

I found out yesterday that almost 13% of the medical staff are unvaccinated.

Surely that number of staff can’t just be fired? How do they expect a hospital to function with such a mass exodus whilst already dealing with staff shortages in nearly every department.

It’s very worrying.

Why are 13% of your doctors not vaccinated. Are they all exempt and in patient facing roles.

They are not being sacked though are they? They have a condition of employment that they don't want to follow so they are choosing to leave rather than get vaccinated.

Why are 13% of your doctors not vaccinated. Are they all exempt and in patient facing roles.

Why would you think I would know 13% of the medical staff in the Trust? (this term includes nurses and other professional roles, not just the doctors).

I’m also obviously not privy to which staff are unvaccinated and the reasons why they aren’t

They are not being sacked though are they? They have a condition of employment that they don't want to follow so they are choosing to leave rather than get vaccinated.

Different people have different takes on it I suppose.

In my eyes it’s just blackmail and threats.

Why are 13% of your doctors not vaccinated. Are they all exempt and in patient facing roles.

Why can’t you read? OP didn’t say 13% of doctors aren’t vaccinated.

I would imagine they will OP but I don’t know how they’re going to deal with the massive shortfall of staff afterwards.

They will be redeployed, but if the numbers too great for that, then yes there will be an exodus. Those who cannot be vaccinated fir medical reasons will be front of the queue for redeployment, and will be the only ones eligible for medical severance packages,

If you don't know the detail of the 13%, then I expect the figure may be eithe pr old or just plain wrong (or both)

I think they are hoping to scare them into complying.
How will I pay my mortgage/rent, bills, feed my family etc

The NHS is already on its knees. It will go completely under if they follow through on this.

Unless this is a way to introduce privatisation of course.

Yes the will be sacked....our trust sent out an email yesterday giving unvaccinated staff a timeline...l.they need to have had the first jab in feb to be able to have had the 2nd one 8 weeks later in April.....anyone who is choosing not to be vaccinated has been advised to make this known now to their line manager so that a Initial plans can be made for any recruitment that may be needed. There’s just one lady on my team ( who is A band 6 community nursE )who remains unvaccinated....she intends to have her 1st jab on the very last day possible ...but is resigned to ultimately get it done...lashes had young children and a mortgage....as a nurse there is nowhere else for her to go in the U.K. and earn 40k plus enhancements.....get 41 days leave ( including bank holidays) and have excellent pension and sick pay provision....she says she will not cut off her nose to spite her face. It is different with care staff who have left.....they are on minimum wages....they have not spent 3 years at uni getting a degree for their profession and an extra year at uni doing a masters to get a specialism......so it’s relatively easy for them to jump from being a carer to working in hospitality or retail.....still for minimum wage.....but nurses and doctors will stay in the NHS ....I would imagine all but a very very small minority will be double jabbed by april

Oh right, we refer to doctors as medical staff, nurses as nursing staff, physios and ot as therapy staff, pharmacists as pharmacy staff etc. Maybe different trusts are different. How did you get this info.

If you don't know the detail of the 13%, then I expect the figure may be eithe pr old or just plain wrong (or both)

It’s the current figure.

I was in the occupational health department yesterday having my booster and I was casually talking to the nurses about how many staff a day they see etc and that’s when they told me the figure.

They said that at the moment Managers do not know which members of their staff aren’t vaccinated but they will be given the names of those staff in a months time if they still haven’t had their first vaccine.

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

They will be redeployed, but if the numbers too great for that, then yes there will be an exodus. Those who cannot be vaccinated fir medical reasons will be front of the queue for redeployment, and will be the only ones eligible for medical severance packages,

If you don't know the detail of the 13%, then I expect the figure may be eithe pr old or just plain wrong (or both)

I think if you have a valid reason or are exempt from the vaccine then it doesnt apply. You wont be redeployed

I really hope they don’t. Quebec seems to have abandoned their healthcare mandate. I’m not sure if anyone else has.

When they first announced this I thought it was a risky way of painting yourself into a corner as I think at the time I read that 10% of frontline staff weren’t fully vaccinated (and I think around 7% were vaccinated at all). Assuming a few more get it, would they really get rid of, say, 5% of frontline staff?

I’m pro vaccination, have had my two doses (not eligible for booster), and I understand the reasons behind it but it’s a lot of staff to lose from an NHS that is already under pressure on a staffing level.

I think sacking huge numbers of NHS workers across the country is going to have a far bigger, and more dangerous impact on patient care and death rates then allowing a small percentage of unvaccinated medical staff to be allowed to work.

I imagine the lower paid ones will just leave like the care workers, some will retire if of an age to do that and the ones with proper careers that earn more will stay and get vaccinated

Lot's of us don't want to have the vaccine. We should be able to make informed choices about what we put in our bodies.

@doublemonkey

Lot's of us don't want to have the vaccine. We should be able to make informed choices about what we put in our bodies.

You can make an informed choice about what you put in your body. No one is stopping you at all.

If it is a condition of employment/entertainment etc..... then you have to accept that you can do everything but no one whatsoever is stopping you making am informed choice about what you put in your body.

If staff can choose not to have the vaccine can patients refuse to be looked after by unvaccinated staff

I think they will and it's absolutely disgraceful. At a push fine for new staff to have to be fully vaccinated but this is a fundamental change to contracted t&c I can't see how its allowed. I would have no issue being treated by someone who is unvaccinated. Maybe they need to seperate wards for vaccinated and unvaccinated- patients and staff.

@KittenCatcher

If staff can choose not to have the vaccine can patients refuse to be looked after by unvaccinated staff

Can staff refuse to treat unvaccinated patients?

Perhaps they could be redeployed to the covid ward. That might focus a few minds.

The 'why are they vaccinated' is irrelevant - some may change their minds under job loss duress but other won't and will leave.

The most important thing is how will the NHS and the people who need to use it deal with this loss?

Will vaccinated people come forward to retrain? That's what we need if we all want a functioning health service.

Why AREN'T they vaccinated 🤦‍♀️

I suspect ultimately it will be a battle of wills, however the Government are not adverse to takings a massive risky gamble.

At this moment in time I will be far more surprised if they DIDN’T continue with their plan.

Especially if this new variant is as bad as scientists fear.

I think they will be sacked, I think it's awful.

I hope the private sector will take them.

I'm CEV and have regular appointments. My doc told me bluntly she is not sure about having the third vaccine. She's 52 so I presume her private pension kicks in at 55. I think she's had enough. She's also said to me that the reduced staff numbers are making her job harder every day.

Sadly the government seem very determined.