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Original poster

Mandatory vaccination

377 replies

amsadandconfused · 09/11/2021 22:20

So I am not anti vac and have had my two doses and booster booked for next week. I do genuinely understand why a lot of my work colleagues are reluctant..Drs ,nurses ,carers etc . They are young people in their 20s/30s who are scared about the long term side effects ie infertility,blood disorders ..it’s very easy for people who are not in a job involving health care to be so critical of these lovely people .
Yes hepatitis B jab is mandatory for some but the hep jab has had many years of trials.
Can I ask everyone reading my post if you would be 100% happy if their 20 something children had this vaccine?

OP posts:
PAFMO · 10/11/2021 08:20

@elliehamster

Those saying the choice is either have the jab or leave the NHS: this is not choice, this is coercion.

The next thing will be unvaccinated people will be banned from shops, cafes, pubs, banks, other workplaces. This is already the case in many countries including France, Israel, UAE, coming to NZ etc. This will be happening in the UK next year. Choice? Fair? Free society? No, it’s tyranny plain and simple.

Just for a moment think about the fourth, fifth and sixth boosters, if you have nasty side effects from one of the jabs and you really cant face another, you will lose your job and be outcast from society. Is that ok with you?

Afaik only in Austria. Other countries do have more restrictions but you can produce negative tests if you don't want to be vaccinated. It will be interesting to compare positivity rates in countries with these measures and countries without. To see if there is, in fact, a difference.
Arrowheart · 10/11/2021 08:21

Yes 100% happy.

CurlyGirlsMum · 10/11/2021 08:22

@PAFMO But the article you link to doesn’t debunk the claims, although it says it does.

It comes down to what actually causes a death which is deemed to be a covid death. I expect people will argue about this for a long time and that definitions of a death because of covid will be reassessed.

Arrowheart · 10/11/2021 08:24

@elliehamster

Those saying the choice is either have the jab or leave the NHS: this is not choice, this is coercion.

The next thing will be unvaccinated people will be banned from shops, cafes, pubs, banks, other workplaces. This is already the case in many countries including France, Israel, UAE, coming to NZ etc. This will be happening in the UK next year. Choice? Fair? Free society? No, it’s tyranny plain and simple.

Just for a moment think about the fourth, fifth and sixth boosters, if you have nasty side effects from one of the jabs and you really cant face another, you will lose your job and be outcast from society. Is that ok with you?

Yes.
PAFMO · 10/11/2021 08:24

[quote CurlyGirlsMum]@PAFMO But the article you link to doesn’t debunk the claims, although it says it does.

It comes down to what actually causes a death which is deemed to be a covid death. I expect people will argue about this for a long time and that definitions of a death because of covid will be reassessed.[/quote]
Yes it does.
The people wishing to use the article to deny the 170,000 deaths in Italy used the data that only about 3% of those deaths were of people with no co-morbidities. They took that 3% and turned it into "only 4000 people" The End.
When the reality was only 3% had co-morbidities but that doesn't mean 97% didn't die of Covid.

Chemenger · 10/11/2021 08:24

@PurpleDaisies

Can I ask everyone reading my post if you would be 100% happy if their 20 something children had this vaccine?

Yes. Without hesitation.

Both of my 20 something daughters are double vaccinated. Both had the vaccinations as soon as they were able to.
PAFMO · 10/11/2021 08:25

And, again, long thread on Friday with lots of links to reputable scientific articles about the "of/with" thing.
It's just not true.

PAFMO · 10/11/2021 08:25

(sorry, Monday)

Drowninginpoo · 10/11/2021 08:26

No, none of mine will be getting it.

PAFMO · 10/11/2021 08:27

@Drowninginpoo

No, none of mine will be getting it.
Are they in their 20s? How will you stop them?
nearlytweeny · 10/11/2021 08:29

"Any anti-vaxxer working in a healthcare setting is oxymoronic and doesn't deserve their salary and that's a hill I'm prepared to die on"
This...
I'd also much rather stand by Roses and Hellebores much quoted post than an NHS colleague who refuses the vaccine. I do have colleagues like this and they think they'll find a loophole.. I'd much rather they went but do you know what, they won't actually leave because they wouldn't get the same pay and perks anywhere else..
No I'm not nasty and mean, just an adult healthcare professional who accepts that with choice comes consequence, and that NHS staff as a whole include some who should really not be there.
More worried about the can of worms that the definition of "frontline" will open up... waiting for that battle to really get going.

CurlyGirlsMum · 10/11/2021 08:34

@PAFMO The same metric isn’t used to measure potential vaccine deaths, though.

And the public haven’t been given a reason why a covid death is counted as such when covid is down as a second or third cause of death. Normally only the first cause of death is counted.

Sugarandtime · 10/11/2021 08:41

There really are some deeply unpleasant people posting on this thread, and other the threads connected to Covid.
So much unpleasant name calling. Many come across that they had their injections but deep down aren’t happy that they did and their way of dealing with it is to called others names.

Obviously this isn’t everyone, but why would you call others names just because they want a choice in exactly the same way as you had a choice yourself in having the injections.

Divebar2021 · 10/11/2021 08:44

they won't actually leave because they wouldn't get the same pay and perks anywhere else

I think after a winter of increased fuel bills, food bills and general economic uncertainty there may not be a huge amount of enthusiasm for leaving to find a new job. And If someone gives up their job security, pension etc to sit there on universal credit ( as someone on a thread said they would do) well good luck to them. They’re going to need it.

Familyfallout · 10/11/2021 08:45

As an extremely clinically vulnerable person who caught covid, despite 2 vaccinations, the minute the face mask restrictions were lifted in the summer, I think any HCP not getting vaccinated is inexcusable. Whilst getting your own vaccine lends some protection to yourself, it doesn't prevent getting the virus. In my case as I am under 50 with only the one illness I recovered after 10 days (still no sense of smell though), however imagine the same scenario with a frail elderly person with lots of issues like diabetes, heart disease and breathing problems, in that case even a mild case of covid might kill them. Whilst everyone has a choice not to have the vaccine I think everyone should have a choice to be in contact or not with the unvaccinated, and nowhere is more important than when you are I'll and in hospital. I support the poster who asked all the HCPs if they were vaccinated when she was recently in hospital. Many people with poor immune systems will not have had a full response to even 2 jabs so they do still need protection from other people, it is not as simple as saying do your own thing as your jab protects you and others. My 17 and 19yrs DC are vaccinated to protect me and others and my 11 year old will be next year

Madhairday · 10/11/2021 08:57

Yes, very happy that my 18 and 21 year olds are both double jabbed and got the vaccine as soon as they could.

As a frequent flyer in hospital and CEV, I'd be very uncomfortable being treated by someone unvaccinated. It's not about tyranny, it's down to practicalities and numbers - they would simply be much more likely to pass covid on to me and cause me death or even more serious disability. And no thanks.

@PAFMO thank you for your continued patience when it comes to speaking sense about these matters. It just blows my mind that people repeat the same old tropes over and over and believe them (with/of, vaccine experimental, long term effects etc etc) when the information is all out there from reputable sources. Why do people watch something their aunt posted on FB and take it as gospel? It's baffling.

KrisAkabusi · 10/11/2021 09:07

@CurlyGirlsMum

OP I share your concerns.

The media fed us a biased narrative throughout 2020 and 2021. Mortality rates in 2020 were no worse than in 2009, adjusting for age of population.

I believe we are being similarly misled about the vaccines. It has been reported that only 9 people have died in the U.K. because of Covid vaccination. This is because the ONS only register deaths confirmed by inquest or post-mortem.

According to the Yellow Card reporting system, the U.K. vaccine death toll stands at over 1,730. Reported adverse reactions are over 23,000.

Questions about short-term safety are being swept aside. Obviously we know nothing about long-term effects.

The yellow card scheme does NOT say that 1730 died because of the vaccine. 1730 died after getting the vaccine. That's a very different thing. Particularly when the first cohort to get the vaccine were the old and vulnerable.
minatrina · 10/11/2021 09:08

@RosesAndHellebores

My 20 something children have both had it and were keen to do so.

I would be really worried about being treated by anyone who works for the NHS who hasn't had the jab - not just due to the risks of them having Covid but also because I would question their judgement and ability to analyse complex data. If they can't do that adequately, they probably aren't bright enough to be responsible for another humans care.

Couldn't agree more!
CurlyGirlsMum · 10/11/2021 09:09

@Madhairday You seem to suggest that the covid vaccines are not experimental. However they are, and are acknowledged as such (see my quote upthread from the AstraZeneca spokesman, about why the company cannot accept liability for damage).

Experimental drugs are not necessarily dangerous or ineffective. But these vaccines are still in the experimental phase and long term (ten, twenty year) data is unavailable. Some people are concerned by this and some are not.

CurlyGirlsMum · 10/11/2021 09:11

@KrisAkabusi That is absolutely true, and also true of most covid deaths. Vaccine and covid deaths happened among the old and vulnerable.

Statistics have to emphasise vaccine safety, if vaccines are to be made mandatory for government employees such as NHS workers.

Nidan2Sandan · 10/11/2021 09:13

I don't agree with mandatory vaccines, it's a slippery slope taking away someone's bodily autonomy just because if the job they do.

That said, in answer to your question I would be fine about my children taking the vaccine. DH and I are double jabbed and my 12 yo has had her singular jab because I do think vaccination is the way out of this mess

Girliefriendlikespuppies · 10/11/2021 09:15

God this thread is depressing, you and your love ones are going to face more risk of dying because of a lack of staff (in health and social care) than any risk of catching covid.

It's cutting off your nose to spite your face to make the vaccine mandatory.

Drowninginpoo · 10/11/2021 09:15

PAFMO

No, they're all under 15.

Kitkat151 · 10/11/2021 09:29

@Drowninginpoo

PAFMO

No, they're all under 15.

So why bother posting? The OP asked about people in their 20s
EileenGC · 10/11/2021 09:30

All the Covid vaccine producers asked for and got a legal indemnity in case problems arise in future. They did not specify what problems they were concerned about - maybe none at all.

Of course they will get that. I need a very specific, 9-figure personal liability insurance to do my job - I sometimes work in places like national art galleries or museums, next to very expensive, irreplaceable objects or paintings.

It doesn’t mean I intend to break anything or have some inside knowledge or prefabricated plan on what could go wrong. I get insurance because it’s the responsible thing to do. I don’t specify to my contractors why I have that insurance policy nor do I list all the things that could go wrong.

Vaccine producers will be insured just in case something happens and they need to be covered, not because they purposely know and are planning for irreplaceable lives to be lost.