Vaccinated v Unvaccinated in hospital

[beckypv]

I was just wondering what the numbers were of vaccinated v unvaccinated covid patients in hospital were. It made me wonder, if we had 100% vaccination, and covid is allowed to run free, would the nhs be able to cope? I know vaccination doesn’t always stop hospital admission but does it stop it enough that if infection figures were at 200k a day, would hospital admissions still be at a manageable level? The flip side of this, is I was wondering if everyone was vaccinated would that stop the government having to ponder introducing new measures of cases continue to rise?? ie. Would 99% 12+ (allowing for those who medically can’t) jabbed enable us to be free again?

@XenoBitch

You can’t vaccinate yourself against getting run over

No, but I can just not go out instead.

Point it, you can't have someone unvaccinated admitted to hospital, and have fingers pointed at them telling them is is their own fault.
There are so many factors in play.

But their decision is likely to have contributed to the situation.

Vaccination would be the main factor.

*But their decision is likely to have contributed to the situation.

Vaccination would be the main factor*

You don't know that. No one does. Fully vaccinated people still end up in hospital. Do we point a finger at them? No.
So why do we say that unvaccinated people are to blame for their own hospital admission?

So many options! From my limited understanding it looks like you are 5 times more like to be hospitalised if you haven’t been vaccinated. So theoretically, if everyone was jabbed, we would need 5 times the level of current infection - about 250 000 per day, to be at the same hospital levels as now. That suggests to me if we were all vaccinated we wouldn’t need another lockdown?

@beckypv

So many options! From my limited understanding it looks like you are 5 times more like to be hospitalised if you haven’t been vaccinated. So theoretically, if everyone was jabbed, we would need 5 times the level of current infection - about 250 000 per day, to be at the same hospital levels as now. That suggests to me if we were all vaccinated we wouldn’t need another lockdown?

Soooo, blame the unvaccinated for the next lockdown?

@Pootle40
3,181 actually, with NO underlying health conditions. 7,050 under 18s admitted with Covid related problems. (source: PHE, published 6/9 in response to false figures printed in the Mail online, subsequently retracted with an apology)

@FreshFreesias

Also people see being vaxxed as a free pass to drink, smoke and be overweight.

That is such bullshit.

Anyone choosing not to get a vaccine without a sound medical reason is a selfish idiot imho.

You may not agree with me (clearly) but I am allowed to have my opinion just as you are allowed yours.

Thing is, people far brighter than you or I have done the research and prepared the data, and proven that vaccination helps restrict the virus - not eliminate the risk completely but reduce it massively.

Full sympathy to those fully vaccinated who end up in hospital - that's really bad luck - and a very different situation to those who choose not to try and reduce their risk.

Whenever I ask the anti vaxxers on these threads how we would have got out of lockdowns without a vaccine, they have no answer.

Funny, that.

@FreshFreesias
Shit! I didn't get the memo!
Phew! Thank goodness you're here to tell us!
Must immediately get me a pack of Marlboro, a WKD and a KFC.
None of which I've ever touched or am ever likely to.
Worrying. Do you think they'll take my vaccine away?

@Itsnotover

Whenever I ask the anti vaxxers on these threads how we would have got out of lockdowns without a vaccine, they have no answer.

Funny, that.

We can get out of it with proper testing and isolation, not assuming that vaccinated are goddamn superheroes that don't' spread Covid, and pointing the finger at the unvaccinated like they Ebola carriers.

@XenoBitch you're just making stuff up. It's ridiculous. Why do you think the vaccine is such a bad idea?

[quote Itsnotover]@XenoBitch you're just making stuff up. It's ridiculous. Why do you think the vaccine is such a bad idea?[/quote]
I don't think it is a bad idea, not at all. It seems like a lot of folk think that being vaccinated means you are 100% protected and can't spread Covid.

Nobody thinks that. Who has said that?

The whole point is that vaccination programmes work via a high uptake. The more people that have them both slows the spread of the disease and dramatically cuts your risk of being hospitalised.

It's quite simple. If everyone stopped vaccinating their kids against MMR, doctors would start seeing many more cases.

Which precisely nobody has said, either on this thread, Mumsnet in general, or the public domain.

If everyone else was double vaccinated but infection rates were doubled - admissions from the 70+ group would probably double, so despite the lower admissions from younger people the NHS would still be screwed.

Except that ignores the vaccine's effect on transmission. If every adult who can, was vaccinated the R number would be close to 1 and we'd have nothing like levels of disease we have now.

Saying we can't blame individuals who don't have the vaccine (but medically can) seems as silly as saying we can't blame individual drunk drivers.

OP - I’m really pro vaccine; but spreading covid is multi factorial.

Why demand that everything go back to normal rather than have some restrictions? Different people have different risks of catching and spreading covid - some of these are avoidable and some are not.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-40ac92b1-1750-4e86-9936-2cda6b0acb3f

Who’s to say whether an unvaccinated person who wfh, shops online and has few contacts, wears masks, avoids public transport has a higher or lower risk of spreading than a double vaccinated person who goes out a lot, doesn’t wear masks etc.

And then- some people are in essential jobs where they can’t work from home, whereas others can.

I would focus on trying to improve the avoidable things. Do whatever you can: get vaccinated (flu and covid), wear masks, reduce contacts where possible, regularly do LFTS, isolate (if possible) if a household member has covid. Companies who are able to let their staff wfh, should give them an option. Improve ventilation in buildings. If everyone tries their best (even if they choose or cannot do everything), I think it would make a difference.

Personally I would blame the terrible govt strategy of opening everything up quickly when we have winter coming rather than being more measured and sensible.

100% vaccination is not possible.

It will be locked down because of a virus, and because of the chronic lack of NHS funding.
But yeah, it is easy to point to the finger at the "filthy" unvaccinated " people, and blame them for all the Covid cases and deaths

Sorry where have I called unvaccinated people filthy or said they’re to blame for all of the covid cases?

It is in fact perfectly plausible than those who refuse the vaccination will be the tipping point between the nhs being able to cope sufficiently well that we don’t have restrictions, and the alternative. We aren’t there yet though, so it isn’t possible to say.

@Hmumoftw0 you, and people like you are why we could potentially go back into lockdown and not ev able to spend Christmas with our families. You are very, very selfish.
I'm sorry but the majority of people in ICU are unvaccinated and they are spoiling it for the rest of the population

@Mindareno

*It will be locked down because of a virus, and because of the chronic lack of NHS funding. But yeah, it is easy to point to the finger at the "filthy" unvaccinated " people, and blame them for all the Covid cases and deaths*

Sorry where have I called unvaccinated people filthy or said they’re to blame for all of the covid cases?

It is in fact perfectly plausible than those who refuse the vaccination will be the tipping point between the nhs being able to cope sufficiently well that we don’t have restrictions, and the alternative. We aren’t there yet though, so it isn’t possible to say.

Not you, but those views have been shared on MN and social media.

@XenoBitch

Ok, just keep telling yourself that nonsense. It doesn't make it true though hmm

If I end up in ICU after getting run over by a drunk driver.... is it their fault for drinking and driving, or is it my fault for walking out into the road?

But being unvaccinated means you stepped out onto the road blind, without looking left or right, leaving yourself vulnerable.

The telling thing is that once on itu or the Ward, most of those who chose to not vaccinate wish they had had it.

Obviously too late by then.