What is the point of the 12-15 vaccinations?

[loveandroses]

I am 100% pro vaccination and we should all get double vaccinated as soon as possible if we haven't already. But there is something about the 12-15 vaccination programme that is confusing me.

The UK scientific view as I understand it is that there is marginals health benefit (any benefit is good) but that the larger benefit will be to stop educational disruption. From a scientific point of view, how does this make sense?

I thought (please correct me if I am wrong) that with the delta variant and one dose there was very little decrease in infection but more (although not that much) decrease in illness. If the children are infected they can't go to school even if they are not ill so how does this help?

This doesn’t answer your question, but I am increasingly of the opinion that announcing vaccinations for this age group was only ever intended to be window dressing.

Vaccinators came into DCs school last week for two days. They did less than 10% of the school (I know some won’t be eligible and some won’t want it, but plenty who are, and did, weren’t done).

No plans for them to return, and no alternative venues. I’ve heard the same story from a lot of other areas.

I do have sympathy for prioritising supply to the elderly and very vulnerable, of course, but that doesn’t seem to be what’s going on.

It seems to be much more of a token roll out - to be seen to do something, without any real intent to reach as many as want it.

This is my internal debate too. If the vaccine stopped you from getting it and passing it on then I could see the argument. The purpose of the vaccine is to prevent serious illness and death. Which it is doing marvellously. But children on the whole don’t get seriously ill.

I’m very pro vaccine. DS are both getting the flu vaccine next week for the greater good.

I struggle with the ‘avoid disruption to education’ argument. It was the isolations that were doing that.

Yes if they catch Covid they will need to be off but that is like any illness. DS 13 has not had a single day off and is never ill. So if he does catch it and has to have a bit of time off it’s not the end of the world. This could still happen after one vaccination.

My current stance is to watch and wait. There’s no rush. 30% of his year and most of his friends have Covid currently so he’s more likely to catch it before the vaccination team come in in a few weeks anyway

It would make a lot more sense if they had two jabs rather than one. Being double vaxxed does have an effect on transmission rates according to the studies I’ve seen. Agree that one jab is pointless.

Vaccinators came into DCs school last week for two days. They did less than 10% of the school (I know some won’t be eligible and some won’t want it, but plenty who are, and did, weren’t done)

Same here. 2 yeargroups didn't get done. and no plans to return. I'm ruddy annoyed about it as it means missing the flu one as well since they were done together.

So basically all the whining/handwringing, especially on here is doubly irritating. Consent to it or not, but stop the bellyaching for the love of Jesus. There's not even the guarantee your kid will get it anyway

Same here. 2 yeargroups didn't get done. and no plans to return. I'm ruddy annoyed about it as it means missing the flu one as well since they were done together.

My kids not having it but we’ve not even had any information through yet from the school as to when they’ll be happening. A friend in a different area has been told they’ll probably be done in December, along with flu sprays. December !

There’s really no point unless your child has profound health issues (eg morbid obesity/immunocompromised) or they live with an unvaccinated, vulnerable guardian.

Certainly no call for a blanket mandate, more on a case by case in a very small cohort.

@SuperstarDog

Same here. 2 yeargroups didn't get done. and no plans to return. I'm ruddy annoyed about it as it means missing the flu one as well since they were done together.

My kids not having it but we’ve not even had any information through yet from the school as to when they’ll be happening. A friend in a different area has been told they’ll probably be done in December, along with flu sprays. December !

I was talking to our GP receptionist yesterday who also does one of the vaccine places and she said it was a bit ambitious to do the both at school. It's a massive undertaking for the poor buggers going around the schools.

The flu should have been given at school as usual and the kids booked in at the centres for those wanting it. Now a chunk of kids are going to miss the flu one because of it and no other way of getting one. You can't even take them to the pharmacist, I asked there yesterday when I got mine.

Boots does flu jabs for over 12s but only in certain stores.

Ooo do they? I'll ask at ours, cheers man.

Didn't a 15 years old girl with no underlying condition died of covid myocarditis recently? If it prevents death and serious illness, there is always a point of vaccinating children.

It does reduce transmission! As at least 50-80% dont get it at all so no transmission!

But yes 1 dose does less so hopefully they will give 2 in the end.
The measure gov are using is death which is low but 10d off school with them maybe 1/10 chance of longer term symptoms with no treatment.
Also certainly my dc wouldnt do well going into hospital or having cannula in.
Then inconvenience of missed holidays /travel abroad or birthday party etc
My dc went a whole year previously with no time off and some kids have had covid twice in 6m. So as restrictions around the world loosen further how often will families catch it..

@gamerchick

Ooo do they? I'll ask at ours, cheers man.

You’re welcome! You can use the search function on the Boots website to work out which stores offer the flu jabs, then you have to call that store directly to book your child in. I think it was £15 per jab.

i think its a case of every family needs to weigh up the pro's and con's.

Both my teens are getting it because we have someone in the family who is CEV, and on meds that mean they've just had to have a 3rd full vaccine dose because their immunity is non-existant after 6 months.. so its vital to us that we do it to protect them the best we can as a family.

I don’t think it makes sense unless they are immunocompromised or they have someone immunocompromised in their close family.

Apparently 50-70% of children were thought to have had it back in early September and seeing as its been ‘ripping’ through schools for the last few weeks, that will have increased the percentage that are now immune. Already having immunity is going to tilt the balance even further away from any benefit over any potential risks.

Really not sure why antibody tests aren’t being offered to help parents/young people make informed decisions about whether or not they need it.

@bumbleymummy , what do you think of a girl who died on the day she was supposed to get vaccinated? Don't you think she may have not died if she was vaccinated?
Please stop promoting anti vax none sense while people are dying.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-58772671

@Megistotherium As I say I am 100% pro the covid vaccines. To decide if you want to give it to a child you need to weigh up the risks of giving it and the risks of not giving it. The JCVI did this for us and came to the conclusion that for 12-15 year olds it was quite finely balanced but just in favour of giving it. Then the MHRA looked at wider benefits to the child including their education. That is what my question is about.

It doesn't really help to point to specific instances when a child got ill from covid or from the vaccine. You have to look at all the millions of children who have been given the vaccine already in other countries.

It means they have more chance of getting through GCSE's without a month or more off school.

Um op thats wrong.
Jvci did come out saying slight benefit but didnt give because small benefit (ignoring lc).
Mrha dont get to decide this - they made the decision months ago that the vaccines were safe for 12+ which is their job.
It was whitty etc who gave go ahead because of missing school , uk case rates etc etc.
Jvci decision was quite odd as the myocarditis risks are lower than the virus. And not looking at lc and the risks of disruption to the kids.
As a local school has had 200 cases in 2w i dont think everywhere the kids had already had it.
Many other eu coutries have already vaxxed the 12+. Vs us who have hundred of thousands off sick with covid

I get where you are coming from OP. They have cancelled the planned flu jabs at our primary as the vacc. teams are too busy with the 12-15 secondary programme. In previous years they been very heavily promoting the reasons why its important to get the younger age groups flu jabbed and its a bit robbing Peter to pay Paul, when I would argue for childrens sakes its more important to have younger kids flu jabbed than it is the 12-15 group covid jabbed (partiularly because half the secondary classes at least are perhaps likely to have already been exposed to covid by the time they get round to being jabbed).

Would make more sense if the had two jabs

You’re welcome! You can use the search function on the Boots website to work out which stores offer the flu jabs, then you have to call that store directly to book your child in. I think it was £15 per jab

Wales or NI. Might be a bit far for us from the NE

One dose at least halves the risk of becoming infected.
For ds the main benefits are
Less likely that he will get it and so having to attempt to self isolate him ( which I am not sure we will manage due to his severe autism).
Less likely he will get it and pass it on to us. We are not CV but still would struggle to look after ds if we had the same symptoms as other healthy people we know who had it recently.

@HSHorror

Um op thats wrong. Jvci did come out saying slight benefit but didnt give because small benefit (ignoring lc). Mrha dont get to decide this - they made the decision months ago that the vaccines were safe for 12+ which is their job. It was whitty etc who gave go ahead because of missing school , uk case rates etc etc. Jvci decision was quite odd as the myocarditis risks are lower than the virus. And not looking at lc and the risks of disruption to the kids. As a local school has had 200 cases in 2w i dont think everywhere the kids had already had it. Many other eu coutries have already vaxxed the 12+. Vs us who have hundred of thousands off sick with covid

Wasn’t also the fact that the benefit isn’t enough to outweigh unknown risks? (Who even knew about the myocarditis problem before the US rollout?)

It’s disconcerting that a lot of the risks aren’t fully known when they start rollout. For older groups it’s not a huge problem because corona can be quite dangerous so it’s a risk worth taking. For younger groups it is not

Sorry it wasn't the MHRA who judged the educational benefits, it was the CMOs (e.g. Whitty).