What is the point of the 12-15 vaccinations?

[loveandroses]

I am 100% pro vaccination and we should all get double vaccinated as soon as possible if we haven't already. But there is something about the 12-15 vaccination programme that is confusing me.

The UK scientific view as I understand it is that there is marginals health benefit (any benefit is good) but that the larger benefit will be to stop educational disruption. From a scientific point of view, how does this make sense?

I thought (please correct me if I am wrong) that with the delta variant and one dose there was very little decrease in infection but more (although not that much) decrease in illness. If the children are infected they can't go to school even if they are not ill so how does this help?

@herecomesthsun

A European country which won't accept people over 12 who aren't vaccinated.

yes i was thinking Malta too. I have family there. Its not always just about sunseeking. Is Malta the only country? Surely not, although its such a small island that its sensible to be strict, whilst acknowledging that they do need tourism

My question is what if your child has already had Corona (positive PCR test).

I'm massively pro-vax, but I'm really struggling to weigh the benefits against the risks in favour of the benefits.

Assuming my child has the same level of immunity as someone who has been single vaxxed (EXTREMELY unlikely, natural immunity likely to be way higher than single vaxxed), their chance of getting myocarditis is way larger than avoiding hospitalisation (between 2 and 6 times) and at least 20 times more likely than requiring ICU admission.

This is before taking into account underlying health conditions, of which, to my knowledge, my child has none.

Is Malta the only country? Surely not, although its such a small island that its sensible to be strict, whilst acknowledging that they do need tourism

This is why I think the ‘double dose’ fears are really unfounded. People will just go to one of the many tourist destinations that already accept negative PCRs, so it will be untenable to suddenly allow only vaccinated ppl entry if you are serious about tourism.

@Walkaround

Funny how it’s unacceptable to limit people’s freedoms with vaccine passes, but OK to limit people’s freedom by not giving them access to a vaccine.

If the risk is thought to outweigh the benefits for that age group then surely that’s the right decision?

@ddsu

My question is what if your child has already had Corona (positive PCR test).

I'm massively pro-vax, but I'm really struggling to weigh the benefits against the risks in favour of the benefits.

Assuming my child has the same level of immunity as someone who has been single vaxxed (EXTREMELY unlikely, natural immunity likely to be way higher than single vaxxed), their chance of getting myocarditis is way larger than avoiding hospitalisation (between 2 and 6 times) and at least 20 times more likely than requiring ICU admission.

This is before taking into account underlying health conditions, of which, to my knowledge, my child has none.

I think if your child has already had covid then I would be very surprised if they would have some high risk of reaction to the vaccine.

Its just an intramuscular injection. Vast majority of people have no side effects whatsoever and a few have mild side effects. People are crazy when it comes to injections

I think if your child has already had covid then I would be very surprised if they would have some high risk of reaction to the vaccine

I couldn’t swear to it, but I believe the myocarditis risk is highest for those who’ve already had COVID—and appears just after the second shot. So there’s a good reason to take that into account.

Plus for travel, a certificate of COVID recovery is often accepted in the same category as the vaccinated.

But why give them a vaccine they don’t need?

@bumbleymummy

Do a quick search with my name and obesity or BMI and you’ll see it’s a handful of threads that I’ve mentioned them on. I don’t need to rewrite anything dishh :)

Your 'handful' is likely to be 'heaps' to someone else.

As I already said, my dd1 had her first dose at school a few days ago and apart from a sore arm for a day or 2, she has been absolutely fine touch wood.

She was also told she would be offered a second dose at a later stage.

My previous post was to Branleuse.

Dishh they have a low threshold then. It’s a tiny percentage of all the threads I’ve posted on. Not sure why it really matters tbh .

@bumbleymummy - except the risk is not thought to outweigh the benefit.
And @UsedUpUsername - what hypocrisy to say that neither limiting people’s freedoms by not giving them access to vaccines nor covid passes are acceptable when you then go on to say, “ Plenty of other places for sun and sand who are more welcoming to tourists. Portugal, Greece, Spain, Turkey, France ….” Talk about being an apologist for something you claim to be unacceptable! I have friends who have Maltese relatives. Enough of your bloody holidays .

@bumbleymummy

But why give them a vaccine they don’t need?

Because there's more risk of them becoming seriously ill by catching the disease naturally?

@bumbleymummy

But why give them a vaccine they don’t need?

Your opinion on need. Why offer the flu jab to 12-16 year olds? They don’t “need” that any more than they “need” the covid jab, yet there is clearly a “need” given the colossal expense of offering it to so many people this year. Anyone would think calculations of “need” can differ in different years. We are currently mid-pandemic and I would say pretending we are living through a normal autumn and winter is unhelpful when assessing “need.”

[quote Walkaround]**@bumbleymummy* - except the risk is not* thought to outweigh the benefit.
And @UsedUpUsername - what hypocrisy to say that neither limiting people’s freedoms by not giving them access to vaccines nor covid passes are acceptable when you then go on to say, “ Plenty of other places for sun and sand who are more welcoming to tourists. Portugal, Greece, Spain, Turkey, France ….” Talk about being an apologist for something you claim to be unacceptable! I have friends who have Maltese relatives. Enough of your bloody holidays .[/quote]
I’m not in favour of restricting anything. What are you talking about?

I’m sure once it’s fully approved, it will be available privately. Like chicken pox.

But in very limited circumstances (maybe just Malta??), kids actually don’t need the vaccine to travel—and many adults can get away with just negative PCR.

@UsedUpUsername

My dd will be 12 soon and it's both jabs or none for her

Why all or nothing? One gives enough protection for someone her age, no?

I'm hoping jabs become available privately before summer as I'm planning a large family holiday which dd won't currently be able to attend

I’ve travelled with my unvaxxed kids abroad and plenty of places accept negative PCRs for them. Where are you going where that’s not accepted?

IMO dd doesn't need the protection from 1 jab, she's either had covid with no symptoms or avoided it despite being at a large primary and now a very large secondary. She would benefit from the freedom both jabs would give her.

Re. the holiday - a European cruise, some cruise companies are cancelling tickets for under 18's, so it's likely others will follow. Each country will have different entry requirements for leaving the ship and entering cafés and restaurants e.g. Portugal, some require negative LFT everyday couple of days as a temporary covid pass, it's all an absolute hassle when 2x vaxxed can enter easily.

I have friends who have Maltese relatives. Enough of your bloody holidays

I have actual relatives who live abroad (in multiple countries) and who’ve I’ve taken my kids to see as soon as I could. So not hearsay. Personal experience. And kids never needed vaccines. So
maybe just Malta. What I can tell you is it’s a tiny minority of ‘open’ countries.

@UsedUpUsername - if you claim not to recognise the cognitive dissonance in your attempts to minimise the importance of something you claim to be “unacceptable,” you are deeply insincere!

@bumbleymummy

Do a quick search with my name and obesity or BMI and you’ll see it’s a handful of threads that I’ve mentioned them on. I don’t need to rewrite anything dishh :)

Oh years and years, princess. In fact, it’s going to disrupt their entire lives. They’re doomed I tell you, doomed! Is that what you want to hear? Most statisticians think it’s starting to level off now so I imagine it’s going to get to the level of disruption that flu or other respiratory illnesses cause over the winter months.

@Geamhradh 100-70 = 30 remaining as I said above. It was a range that they gave. More children have now been infected over the last few weeks so there will be fewer left to be infected now.

So covid educational disruption will be all over by Spring 2022 in your opinion? In a matter of months, by about the end of this current term?

Because the majority of young people have been infected already so they will not have their education disrupted?

Next spring?

Not now?

@walkaround I was talking about the second dose. Irt them being denied the choice to have the second vaccine atm.

@Barbie222 (and walkaround) that was in response to Branleuse’s post about giving them vaccine anyway when they’ve already had the virus.

Princess, the disruption would be over a lot faster if we didn’t keep testing children for asymptomatic illness and making children stay off school for 10 days even though they’re well. If we’re supposed to start treating it like flu then we need to move away from that.

@bumbleymummy - treating it like flu would mean offering full covid vaccination to 12-16 year olds, because that’s what they are doing with flu this year.

(It would also mean offering it to very young children, but I don’t think you want to go there!).

[quote Walkaround]@bumbleymummy - treating it like flu would mean offering full covid vaccination to 12-16 year olds, because that’s what they are doing with flu this year.[/quote]
Ok, aside from the fact that they don’t want to offer the second dose yet because of the ‘ considerable uncertainty regarding the magnitude of the potential harms’, this is the first year that we’re actually offering the flu vaccine to this age group.

Are you happy enough to drop all the asymptomatic testing and isolation/time off school for well children given that we don’t treat flu like that?

@bumbleymummy

But why give them a vaccine they don’t need?

because we all want to give everybody the best chance dont we, and why the hell not give them it? What on earth do people think its gonna do? Everyone is suddenly a doctor and virologist

@bumbleymummy - on a personal level, I don’t mind the testing being dropped. I happen to know huge numbers of children are not bothering to do it anyway unless they are feeling ill. How diligent would you expect a teenager to be in testing themselves twice a week when they feel helthy?

@Branleuse the best chance of what? We were talking about children who already had the virus and recovered.

@Walkaround not very . Don’t blame them either!