What is the point of the 12-15 vaccinations?

[loveandroses]

I am 100% pro vaccination and we should all get double vaccinated as soon as possible if we haven't already. But there is something about the 12-15 vaccination programme that is confusing me.

The UK scientific view as I understand it is that there is marginals health benefit (any benefit is good) but that the larger benefit will be to stop educational disruption. From a scientific point of view, how does this make sense?

I thought (please correct me if I am wrong) that with the delta variant and one dose there was very little decrease in infection but more (although not that much) decrease in illness. If the children are infected they can't go to school even if they are not ill so how does this help?

Yes jabs for 12-15 seems like window dressing.. picking the most inefficient way possible to do the roll out in England. There isn’t political will to do it faster.

Just been told that DDs planned vac next week will be ‘later’ as doing younger year groups first. Annoyed, I want her to be protected.

We have been told older ones will get it first. At first the date was given and it sounded like all 12-15s would get it then, but now, it’s being suggested it will just be some.

Is it lack of vaccinating staff or lack of supply?

My children are in exam years. I don’t actually see why you fail to see the benefit for children in that position, @loveandroses. Anything that reduces the severity of any symptoms, chances of secondary infections, and duration of fatigue is a good thing, imvho. I work in a primary school and enough of the children there who have had covid recently are getting regular recurrences of the symptoms and having to take yet more time off school for me to think that must only be more likely to happen in older age groups. It’s not death that is the issue, but it’s a fallacy that hardly any teenagers even realise they’ve got covid. The last two years have been disrupted enough without fucking up another school year for them.

What is the point of the 12-15 vaccinations?

Children are dying of covid and we should do all we can to prevent that.

Covid's a preventable disease.

Children shouldn't be dying of something we can prevent.

I am surprised any parent would want their child vaccinated at a time when it is rife in schools. Whilst it is going through my DC school they won't be having it anyway.

@PrincessNutNuts

What is the point of the 12-15 vaccinations?

Children are dying of covid and we should do all we can to prevent that.

Covid's a preventable disease.

Children shouldn't be dying of something we can prevent.

Has any child that wasn’t already profoundly ill died of Covid?

Likely not—so why not just give the jab to children in that category, as is generally the case now

Has any child that wasn’t already profoundly ill died of Covid?

I linked one up thread.

@Megistotherium

Has any child that wasn’t already profoundly ill died of Covid?

I linked one up thread.

Yes, and many children are being hospitalised each day (close to 50) and many more are having long term serious organ damage, and many many more have long term debilitating symptoms which affect their happiness and education.

If you think covid is fine for kids, you are not reading the science or the medical info.

The point of the vaccination in children is to cut down transmission and serious illness, which the data bears out as all parties agree - although not by a large margin in children. There's also data fairly widely available now to show that, for children, the risk of poor outcomes from one dose of vaccine is substantially less than the risk of poor outcomes from Covid. So if your children haven't had it yet, good idea to reduce the risk, and if even if they've had it I'd still go with a vax as the immunity from natural infection doesn't appear to be particularly long lasting, so better again to protect for longer.

I'm glad it's now an option, although the 12-15 rollout is having quite a lot of logistical difficulties due to the huge demand. It should have started earlier.

My son has already had covid at the start of the school holidays, he wasent paticularly ill with it, but the ten day isolation period is a pain, hes just had his Covid vaccination on tuesday, surely the more kids that have it the less likely it is to keep having outbreaks in school and less disruptions?
Anyway its not mandatory, kids and parents can make the decision to either get it or not.

Yes, it’s very sad when any child dies. Not sure that it justifies vaccinating all children (the JCVI didn’t seem to think that the benefits significantly outweighed the risks), particularly if they’re already immune.

I literally said that I think teens that are immunocompromised or have someone immunocompromised in their family should be vaccinated. Hardly ‘antivaxx’ is it? Pointing out that the majority of children are already immune based on figures from ONS isn’t antivaxx either. Get over yourself.

Previous post to @Megistotherium

I read an article about CMO not sure on how much infection it would stop but a number was put forward by modeller - 30,000 which seems low.

Ds and friends all had to isolate and had symptoms anyway after Pfizer dose. (I still would have as he’s 16 and it was advised)

But I have wondered recently same as your op.

Irt the MHRA approving it for children. They also approved the AZ vaccine for over 18s.

I don’t mind it’s approved btw and still weighing up for soon to be 12

But decision isn’t based on transmission but trying to think about risk Covid v vaccine - which isn’t fool proof of course as data is not easy to quantify on some stuff

I vaccinated in a school the other day and we did around 500.
Every single one that I did wanted to have it, and I know because I asked.

Every single one that I did wanted to have it, and I know because I asked.

That should go without saying.

If you think covid is fine for kids, you are not reading the science or the medical info.
Thing is you have to be able to understand the science as well as reading it and most people don't.

Going by what I see around me I know tons of teens who have had covid, including my own. None had more than mild cold symptoms for a few days.
There has been one death of a healthy child in the UK since the start of the pandemic. The vaccine death rate is higher at around 1 in 500,000.

I'm with OP. DD(15) fully up to date on childhood vaccine schedule but I said no to this. She is a strong healthy girl who been in contact with covid at least three times and has been fine. If she had asthma, heart problems, etc I would change my tune but I cannot see the point of immunising her at the present time.

I'm in Scotland and covid vaccines here (certainly in my area at least) are not being done in school but we have had letters with appointments for vaccine clinics.

However, we need to rearrange them as eldest has had covid recently and you can't have the vaccine within 28 days of a positive test. But no other appointments available. If we want him vaccinated then we need to find a drop in clinic and they only release them 3 days in advance.

Given he's already had covid and they are making it difficult to rearrange appointments then we may just leave this one for the time being.

So … one. In just a year and a half of this?

Yes, and many children are being hospitalised each day (close to 50) and many more are having long term serious organ damage, and many many more have long term debilitating symptoms which affect their happiness and education

You have to test for COVID for admitted so how many of that 50+ is kids being hospitalised for COVID vs getting a positive test while admitted for something completely different? American stats have shown a huge overestimate of this because they don’t make a distinction.

Also, what are the stats on organ damage?

@Toty

If you think covid is fine for kids, you are not reading the science or the medical info. Thing is you have to be able to understand the science as well as reading it and most people don't.

Going by what I see around me I know tons of teens who have had covid, including my own. None had more than mild cold symptoms for a few days.
There has been one death of a healthy child in the UK since the start of the pandemic. The vaccine death rate is higher at around 1 in 500,000.

Well if all the teens you know are fine I guess that’s scientific proof that covid doesn’t affect kids

Look, death is not the only metric, unless you completely want to bury your head in the sand. My ds had covid last year, he was a perfectly healthy, normal kid, but covid affected him badly - he ended up with MIS-C, and his heart is still affected from the covid infection over 18 months ago. He’s not the only kid I know that’s had problems after covid. Kids with long term fatigue or asthma.

Unfortunately it’s not as simplistic as “well they don’t die!” “Everyone I know was fine!” Because yes, thankfully most kids don’t have a bad time with covid. However, it’s not just kids with underlying conditions that can be affected. It can hit completely healthy kids, you can’t just blithely predict that all kids will be fine if they catch covid.

Weirdly though, the people who get dramatic about very rare side effects from the vaccine really don’t seem to give a shit about the higher incidence of side effects from covid.

fullfact.org/health/mail-understates-covid-children-risk/

Six children under 18 with no underlying health conditions died up to February 2021; the number will be higher now.

I understand that approx 10 children under 18 died just last month (the number doesn't seem very well publicised for some reason) and there has been a death of a young girl - which did hit the headlines- very recently, who died on the day she would have been vaccinated, which would almost certainly have prevented her death.

The rate of morbidity and mortality for the vaccine is a good deal lower than for getting covid, even for children, especially when you take into account the potential disruption to their education.

Please don't spread disinformation about vaccines.

@UsedUpUsername

www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.050065

www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/some-children-with-covid-19-or-mis-c-face-kidney-injury-study-68536

www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mis-c-in-kids-covid-19/symptoms-causes/syc-20502550

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201208121044.htm

Vaccine vs covid- effects on the heart
www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

I do think it’s worth weighing up risk vaccine v Covid but thinking about it we have been left a bit in the dark.

JCVI didn’t approve based on their grounds and CMO talked more about disruption so we’re left with links and looking at numbers.

It’s what I’ll base my decision on though- as imperfect as that will be (I mean really imperfect! We don’t have data not expertise)

But re the death from vaccine did pp mean in U.K. for a child? I hadn’t heard this had happened