Covid vaccine passport. It’s going ahead.

[Penfield]

According to another thread on here anyway.

Has anyone else heard this?

On the other thread it sounds as if it will be in 2 weeks time.

@Megistotherium

I hope many people, both vaccinated and unvaccinated will protest this. We have to stand up for our civil rights and bodily autonomy.

They already have rights not to get vaccinated. How about the rights of people who doesn't want to get ill? Why the rights of people decided not to get vaccinated triumphs the rights of people who are vaccinated, or who can't get vaccinated?

You can't ignore the bodily autonomy of another person and force them to have a medical procedure to keep you safe. If you don't want to get ill, then that is your responsibility.

Thin end of the wedge! The amount of people who support this is shocking. we shouldn't have to prove anything to anyone!

Surely it also depends on how many people end up being exempt. For example, I think the exemption from mask wearing was initialy intended for a limited number of people but was ultimately extended to included millions with asthma, anxiety, skin rashes etc. I'm not saying those are not valid reasons to not wear a mask, just that it's pointless to have something mandatory if half the population is exempt.

Quite true.

The number of people genuinely exempt from having vaccine should be tiny. And, as I said upthread, there is a dispiriting rump of people who “can’t” be vaccinated and then strop about having to take pcr tests.

Brilliant news if it goes ahead, I fully support it.

If this goes ahead I would fully support privatisation of the NHS as those wanting this level of protection should be prepared to pay for

I would support the wide use of vaccine passports if there was an alternative for those who could / would not be vaccinated eg free accessible twice weekly testing
Of course there would be some who could not do either. But gp exemption for those should be much easier to establish and would not be as many
Then everyone would be taking responsibility, everyone could enjoy freedoms, everyone could feel safer
It’s very interesting to note those on here that would object to both

@Whammyyammy

Brilliant news if it goes ahead, I fully support it.

applications for exemptions opened on Friday ...................

Let’s have one camp where vaccine passports exist. Thus needing a passport to participate in life.

And another camp for those who want to remain free of having to prove medical history.

UK can then be split into 2 different camps. It is after all meant to be a democracy.

Brilliant way to see if vaccine passports have any effect/impact too.

@Penfield

Let’s have one camp where vaccine passports exist. Thus needing a passport to participate in life.

And another camp for those who want to remain free of having to prove medical history.

UK can then be split into 2 different camps. It is after all meant to be a democracy.

Brilliant way to see if vaccine passports have any effect/impact too.

That would be great. Might be difficult to staff healthcare in one of them though….

I think there would be no difference between the two.

And I think those desperate for vaccine passports would soon be desperate to be in the non passport camp.

Anyway I’m feeling positive today and am pretty sure this camp idea is likely to happen - should vaccine passports actually come into proper fruition.

We will have one passport camp that will feel exactly like a sort of detention centre type camp. And then we’ll have a sort of molecules flying everywhere fly camp where people very easily avoid the government’s useless passport system.

Much the same as happened with track and trace.

@TinaYouFatLard

It’s revolting. I’m appalled at anyone who supports this.

Me too. And I've just come back from a visit to Guernsey where you don't even need to wear masks. They've now taken the view that their population is vaccinated and it''s time to get on with life. The entry requirements weren't onerous - no hotel quarantine or even compulsory PCR tests

Any countries with vaccinated populations still going on about covid passports have collectively lost their minds. People are protected - get on with life. I am happy to carry on wearing a mask indoors in the UK but I hope covid passports never see the light of day in England. There is no need for them. Guernsey does have some covid cases but nobody in hospital with it.

@DottyHarmer

Quite true.

The number of people genuinely exempt from having vaccine should be tiny. And, as I said upthread, there is a dispiriting rump of people who “can’t” be vaccinated and then strop about having to take pcr tests.

I have a lot more sympathy with people not wanting the vaccine than not wanting to wear a mask.

A mask is a minor inconvenience to most; the vaccine is neither 100% safe nor 100% effective so it cannot be made effectively compulsory.

And as I've said before on here, I had the vaccine to keep ME safe. Not other people. I expect other people to do what's right for them.

You've sparked a thought in my head @lockdownmadnessdotcom

Not wearing a mask if far more unsociable than not being vaccinated. Seeing as vaccinated and unvaccinated can catch and pass on Covid with the same amount of viral load - we should all be protecting each other by wearing a mask (unless exempt).

The vaccine only protects people from getting very ill. It protects the vaccinated person, not those around them.

So the mask wearing IS more important than being vaccinated - you're right.

How many vaccinated people are out there who are not wearing masks I wonder ... thousands/millions we see them every day.

How many of those are lusting after vaccine passports?

How many vaccinated people are out there who are not wearing masks I wonder ... thousands/millions we see them every day.
How many of those are lusting after vaccine passports?

I wish there was a roll eye emoji.

You have no idea about the relative proportion of vaccinated versus unvaccinated people who choose to not wear a mask.

Survey data has generally shown being pro various suppression policies correlate - so someone who is anti the vaccine is more likely to be anti-mask and anti asymptomatic testing. Generally this is all driven by a COVID-minimising viewpoint.

In my world I don't see people "lusting" after anything. A COVID status passport is just one way we can help keep rates down, thus preventing the need for more damaging policies like disrupting education/hospitality/routine healthcare.

A COVID status passport is just one way we can help keep rates down

How would they ‘help’ keep the rates down?

@userperuser

A COVID status passport is just one way we can help keep rates down

How would they ‘help’ keep the rates down?

A COVID status passport would mean everyone attending a large event or whatever if it was required for was either fully vaccinated or had a recent negative test.

If someone is vaccinated, this reduces the likelihood of them being infectious, and if they are, reduces the chance of them transmitting. The downside being that this is not 100%.

If someone has a recent negative test, this again reduces the likelihood of them being infectious at the time of the event. Again, this is not bulletproof, as tests are not 100% sensitive and someone could easily have being infected in the time between the test being taken and entry to the event.

On a large scale, this reduces the amount of transmission driven by whatever the pass is used for. I'm not sure why people argue that this isn't the case.

Tests don't seem to work very well @ollyollyoxenfree - going on real life, reading posts here etc

Vaccines aren't working very well either at keeping infections/transmissions down. Only hospitalisations and deaths. So they protect the individual to some extent, but not everyone else around them.

@Penfield

Tests don't seem to work very well *@ollyollyoxenfree* - going on real life, reading posts here etc

Vaccines aren't working very well either at keeping infections/transmissions down. Only hospitalisations and deaths. So they protect the individual to some extent, but not everyone else around them.

Yup, I explained the limitations of both vaccines and tests in terms of preventing onward transmission.

However, the fact that there are limitations (i.e., vaccines do not prevent 100% of infections, tests are not 100% sensitive), does not mean they are useless - this seems to be a common misconception.

On a population level, they reduce transmission even though they might not for a specific individual.

ollyollyoxenfree

The government’s Plan B does not appear to allow for testing other than for staff at events.

Is there any recent evidence of a reduction in transmission amongst the vaccinated?

It’s not the amount of people testing positive for Covid that’s the important thing, it’s those that may require treatment from the NHS which as we know are those who have elevated risk due to age or certain medical conditions, these are not the usually the type of people who attend nightclubs and large events.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

The government’s Plan B does not appear to allow for testing other than for staff at events.

Is there any recent evidence of a reduction in transmission amongst the vaccinated?

It’s not the amount of people testing positive for Covid that’s the important thing, it’s those that may require treatment from the NHS which as we know are those who have elevated risk due to age or certain medical conditions, these are not the usually the type of people who attend nightclubs and large events.

You asked me to explain how a COVID status passport would keep rates down - I explained.

And yup there is evidence demonstrating reduced onward transmission from studies that use random sampling - have posted about it before.

There are at least 4 medical professionals in my department who refuse vaccinations on the grounds "we don't trust it" mostly lovers of homeopathy and what have you. IMO shouldn't be allowed near patients.

ollyollyoxenfree

Which studies? There’s no solid evidence particularly when you compare populations with high vaccination rates such as Israel, just a few limited studies.

When I asked how you thought they would help you included testing which is not being considered alongside an up to date vaccine status.

Thank you for explaining @ollyollyoxenfree

But I disagree with your explanation.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

Which studies? There’s no solid evidence particularly when you compare populations with high vaccination rates such as Israel, just a few limited studies.

When I asked how you thought they would help you included testing which is not being considered alongside an up to date vaccine status.

Your question was specifically about a COVID pass, which is why I answered including testing.

If you want an answer for how a pass that only includes vaccination was an option will reduce testing, you just need to remove the testing part of my answer.

You are significantly less likely to be infected with COVID if vaccinated, and therefore cannot pass it on. If you are infected, several studies have demonstrated a reduced window of time in which someone is infectious, and a reduced a viral load (ie REACT-2). As I said, these studies rely on random sampling, as others are biased by the fact that they use a positive test to proxy for COVID cases.