Further considerations of mandatory vaccine

[Neron]

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/proposal-for-mandatory-covid-certification-in-a-plan-b-scenario-call-for-evidence

What are peoples thoughts on this proposal?
Personally, I don't think this is good.

ollyollyoxenfree

The final nail in the coffin was when posters were gleefully calling for riots, which understandably MNHQ prob didn't want to be seen hosting

This is a unfair statement unless you can back it up with proof of what was said.

The official deletion message from MN was that they felt it had turned a bit ‘conspiracy theorist’

The fact is some posters deliberately started bun fights so that the thread was littered with deletion messages but it was mainly for personal attacks.

Someone started a thread asking where the threads had gone (which was understandably deleted) but many lurkers expressed their upset at the deletion as they had enjoyed reading the threads.

And no @userperuser

It wasn't a difference of opinion and people posting things that didn't fit the "official message". I have posted numerous times about my frustration with the governments repeated cock ups in handling the pandemic.

People were claiming masks were killing people, vaccines were too dangerous to take, COVID wasn't a problem and this is all a huge cover up, vaccines were causing miscarriages, hospitals were never overrun, HCQ and ivermectin are effective treatments and we should be taking them, universities were going online so that students could be spied upon. The level of misinformation was dangerous (and this is just what I can remember - there was so much more).

It was an actual car crash of a thread, and as I said, calling for riots was the final nail in the coffin.

The final nail in the coffin was when posters were gleefully calling for riots, which understandably MNHQ prob didn't want to be seen hosting

This is a unfair statement unless you can back it up with proof of what was said.

Well I was on the thread at the time so saw it - and it was in the final message from MNHQ explaining why it was removed. If you can track down the thread it will be there.

ollyollyoxenfree

It was a debate of opinion which you clearly opposed.

The threads have been deleted so why discuss it because neither of us can prove either way what was said.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

It was a debate of opinion which you clearly opposed.

The threads have been deleted so why discuss it because neither of us can prove either way what was said.

Opinions yes, but also a huge amount of dangerous misinformation, which I have explained. The reason for deletion (the sheer level of misinformation and calling for riots) can be found on the deletion message of the thread if anyone can be bothered to track it down.

It's relevant because posters are using this as an example of "not being able to question the narrative" and being "censored for having a different opinion", when it's clearly not the case.

ollyollyoxenfree

In my option a lot of the discussion was not misinformation at all but I’m not going to state things on this thread that I cannot prove.

The threads were in response to the government’s admitted use of fear tactics to control the population and that’s not misinformation it is fact.

The debate was shut down that is also fact.

They could add in anything even the requirement for private health insurance in the future.

Well, if they did that then health insurance companies would have to start paying out for anything to do with vaccine injuries, which they won’t do.

I had the first AZ and have been crippled with headaches 24 hours a day ever since. Emergency hospital care refereed me to neurology who I am under the care of.

I’m having horrendously long waits, only telephone consultations.

Axa health insurance won’t cover me to see a neurologist privately as they don’t cover anything arising from covid vaccines If they did, I would have seen one face to face within a week, just like I have done with other consultants during covid.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

In my option a lot of the discussion was not misinformation at all but I’m not going to state things on this thread that I cannot prove.

The threads were in response to the government’s admitted use of fear tactics to control the population and that’s not misinformation it is fact.

The debate was shut down that is also fact.

No, the debate was shut down because it was on a thread which included, as I said, huge amount of dangerous misinformation that is literally contributing to death and disability in a pandemic.

People were claiming masks were killing people, vaccines were too dangerous to take, COVID wasn't a problem and this is all a huge cover up, vaccines were causing miscarriages, hospitals were never overrun, HCQ and ivermectin are effective treatments and we should be taking them, universities were going online so that students could be spied upon. The level of misinformation was dangerous (and this is just what I can remember - there was so much more).

Yes it's a shame the posters couldn't stay on the topic of Dodsworth's book which is an interesting and important discussion, but unfortunately the topic tends to draw a certain type of poster, hence the misinformation, and hence the deletion.

@userperuser

The poster who was disrupting the state of fear threads was banned

And they returned numerous times with name changes until they were successful.

The problem is when everything that doesn’t fit the official message is labelled misinformation’ by fact checkers then it’s impossible to let people have a discussion without the cries of ‘see it’s been fact checked and it’s misinformation’.

People are understandably upset and anxious about the way that vaccine passports have been slowly normalised and civil liberties eroded and in moments of frustration may think there’s no other way out. That ‘calling for riots’ is being exaggerated and as the threads have been deleted no way to show what was actually said.

The posters on those threads were just people who enjoyed the debate together but were prevented from doing so by some posters derailing with the constant ‘why do you think that, why, why, why’ posts and the bat shit troll camped out day and night throwing out ‘right wing extremist’ accusations and claiming they were reporting MN to every place they could think of.

It was pathetic.

Yes, they came back over and over, with minimal changes to their username, and kept disrupting those threads so that it became impossible to have any kind of joined-up thought process or discussion. There were some interesting thoughts there but that's been swept away, unfortunately.

ollyollyoxenfree

If you cannot reference your claims are you not also spreading misinformation?

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

If you cannot reference your claims are you not also spreading misinformation?

I am literally repeating the false claims made on the threads - they are not my claims.

@MNHQ are free to delete my post if they think it's inaccurate representation of the state of fear saga.

ollyollyoxenfree

You could state literally anything was said but it cannot be referenced.

Maybe in fairness they should delete your comments.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

You could state literally anything was said but it cannot be referenced.

Maybe in fairness they should delete your comments.

Whenever possible I reference my posts, however it is literally impossible to do this seeing as the threads were deleted.

In the current discussion it's an important point to make as posters are them as an example of "not being able to question the narrative" and being "censored for having a different opinion", when it's clearly not the case.

Criticising and questioning various government policies/scientific papers/media reports and all the rest of it (including Dodsworth's book) is important and interesting, but as I said, these type of threads seem to draw a certain type of poster, and the thread just ends up being a sea of misinformation, which is why they are deleted.

Why can’t people just discuss things?

There’s an awful lot of whining and screaming going on. You sound like toddlers having tantrums.

People have different opinions and see things differently. Of course they do. That’s a good thing. We don’t live in an autocratic, brainwashed society yet ...

Although reading threads like theses makes it feel like we’re not far off.

@Worldgonecrazy

By supporting police brutality you ARE supporting the pepper-spraying of an elderly lady by two male police officers.

Yes you are beyond despicable.

We cannot remain civilised and say “that instance of police brutality was okay and that instance was not”.

You should be aware, too, that the woman was wearing a wig. She wasn't quite as elderly as you think. But call me despicable while it was my own DD that was threatened by these people and still has nightmares about them, naturally.

@Penfield

Why can’t people just discuss things?

There’s an awful lot of whining and screaming going on. You sound like toddlers having tantrums.

People have different opinions and see things differently. Of course they do. That’s a good thing. We don’t live in an autocratic, brainwashed society yet ...

Although reading threads like theses makes it feel like we’re not far off.

It mainly fear in the case of covid. So many people are terrified that they can only see one way and attack anyone who doesn’t feel the same.

The gov and media have done a fantastic job on people.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Police brutality is wrong in any and all circumstances in a civilised society.

If a man decided to shit on the Cenotaph whilst demanding his rights to abuse pigs in live TV, police brutality would not be the answer.

You may not agree with the protesters, you may have been angry about what happened to your daughter, but by supporting police brutality you are showing who you really are.

I didn’t realise wearing a wig whilst protesting against removal of rights was an offence worthy of police brutality? (and it looks more like a bad dye job than a wig)

@Siriisatwat. Interesting comments in a news report from those who don’t agree with the protesters, which I think demonstrates the level of fear that has been achieved:

One woman added: 'You say she is not a danger, well actually she is a danger by just breathing on someone. Haven't you noticed that we are in a global pandemic.

[quote Worldgonecrazy]@Siriisatwat. Interesting comments in a news report from those who don’t agree with the protesters, which I think demonstrates the level of fear that has been achieved:

One woman added: 'You say she is not a danger, well actually she is a danger by just breathing on someone. Haven't you noticed that we are in a global pandemic.[/quote]
I worked in patient facing roles for many years in mental health and then dementia care. Working with service users and their families.

Most people are driven by fear of death.
Covid is the biggest bogeyman a lot of people have had to face.
The daily reports of deaths from covid are in the media for a reason.
That reason isn’t to help anyone, it’s to keep them afraid that THEY will die.

That’s what is driving people to turn against each other. The people calling for mandatory vaccines and passports are afraid that someone will give them covid and they will die. They want everyone to have to do the things that they believe will keep them safe and stop them from dying.

Try being me.
Everyone’s saviour, the vaccine, has had a detrimental effect on me.
Now people don’t know what to do with me.
I’m either bombarded with reasons why I am stupid for not having a second different vaccine ( it taking anymore chances while I am living like this), or I must be making it up, or it’s a co incidence or I’ve been blocked and forgotten because they can’t deal with me, I don’t fit the narrative they have made for themselves.

I don’t take it personally because if the places I’ve worked, the people I’ve worked with and the things I’ve studied. I understand why. It does hurt a little though, I won’t lie.

@Worldgonecrazy

You may not agree with the protesters, you may have been angry about what happened to your daughter, but by supporting police brutality you are showing who you really are.

Yes, I am angry about what happened to my DD, and about what happened to my city. I do not support police brutality - I support a safe environment. Like I said, the protestors were warned multiple times over several days, but they failed to heed those warnings and kept escalating. It is you that is showing who you are: someone who supports people like this. I'm horrified by you, particularly as you keep pushing it even after I've said multiple times how much my DD was affected. I have nothing more to say to you.

Going back to the initial point of the thread, there's a thread on here about being double jabbed and really ill with hundreds of responses. So once again, where is the logic in a vaccine only covid pass? How will it make your nightclub safer? So an unvaccinated person can go and dance in a busy bar that closes by 1am but not one that closes after, marvellous!

Going back to the initial point of the thread, there's a thread on here about being double jabbed and really ill with hundreds of responses. So once again, where is the logic in a vaccine only covid pass?

That is a very pertinent, sensible question. But I’m guessing nobody here, the government or many scientists are going to be able to answer it.

In Australia vaccine is mandatory for many now- no jab, no job. Healthcare workers have to have both, or will no longer be employed. Same is coming in for teachers, construction and police, also politicians. I personally have no issue with it, as already have other mandatory vaccines for work.

What if they told you that a jab every six months for the rest of your life was compulsory? No jab no job?

@SD1978

Would you be happy with that?

Just wait until it’s no medical insurance no job.

No new other random new treatment you don’t want no job.

No full medical history disclosure no job and so on.

Oh dear…..too late.