Further considerations of mandatory vaccine

[Neron]

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/proposal-for-mandatory-covid-certification-in-a-plan-b-scenario-call-for-evidence

What are peoples thoughts on this proposal?
Personally, I don't think this is good.

Ok - is that applicable here on this thread or just the other one?

This is getting scary now. It feels like those who wish to question are being hounded out of mumsnet and bullied.

@pontypridd

Ok - is that applicable here on this thread or just the other one?

This is getting scary now. It feels like those who wish to question are being hounded out of mumsnet and bullied.

@pontypridd

Ask as many questions as you want, it's an open forum.

But from your posting history it looks like you often share misinformation and don't engage with people who point out the issues in either it's contents or where it's come from.

This is a completely separate point to criticising various government policies about handling the pandemic.

But from your posting history it looks like you often share misinformation and don't engage with people who point out the issues in either it's contents or where it's come from.

Really? How much of my posting history have you sifted through @hepatocyte?

And where have I not engaged with people who have pointed out issues?

Where have I posted misinformation?

@pontypridd I understand your struggle. I’ve said the same thing on here many times. The very minute you ask a question about current policy or express a worry about where the next government idea is leading to, you are immediately belittled, accused of spreading mis-information and inevitably will be labelled an anti-vaxxer at some point even if you haven’t mentioned vaccines.
It’s ridiculous, seems many on here are satisfied that if it’s not actually happening right this minute or is happening elsewhere in the world then you shouldn’t talk about it or express concerns about something that hasn’t happened yet. The problem is, if enough people fail to become alert to the potential of what is being suggested then it will be brought in with little resistance and then it will be too late.

Far from being uneducated imbecile conspiracy theorists, those asking these questions are actually extremely well read and have taken lots of time to look at information across many platforms before offering their thoughts.
The mere fact that so much information is censored should be worrying enough but clearly not in most cases. Many don’t find it odd that the media cover 25 or so climate change/insulate Britain protesters but fail to cover hundreds of thousands protesting to keep hold of our basic human rights and freedoms each month?
And why has nobody asked why we are doing all this for an illness with such a small fatality rate with an average age of death over 80 years old? The raw data is out there to see and yet everybody continues to follow along?

I’ve said my piece anyway, now I will await the belittling.

I don't think asking a question about things makes you look like you are anti- vaxxer or conspiracy theorist, or have an agenda.
It's what you say. And what you share. Like keeps repeating things like small fatality rate(really?) and average death age of 80+(is it still 80+? )

I think MN is quite tolerant platform. I don't think a lot of things said here won't be allowed elsewhere.

The State of Fear threads went pfffttt

[quote Lostinacloud]@pontypridd I understand your struggle. I’ve said the same thing on here many times. The very minute you ask a question about current policy or express a worry about where the next government idea is leading to, you are immediately belittled, accused of spreading mis-information and inevitably will be labelled an anti-vaxxer at some point even if you haven’t mentioned vaccines.
It’s ridiculous, seems many on here are satisfied that if it’s not actually happening right this minute or is happening elsewhere in the world then you shouldn’t talk about it or express concerns about something that hasn’t happened yet. The problem is, if enough people fail to become alert to the potential of what is being suggested then it will be brought in with little resistance and then it will be too late.

Far from being uneducated imbecile conspiracy theorists, those asking these questions are actually extremely well read and have taken lots of time to look at information across many platforms before offering their thoughts.
The mere fact that so much information is censored should be worrying enough but clearly not in most cases. Many don’t find it odd that the media cover 25 or so climate change/insulate Britain protesters but fail to cover hundreds of thousands protesting to keep hold of our basic human rights and freedoms each month?
And why has nobody asked why we are doing all this for an illness with such a small fatality rate with an average age of death over 80 years old? The raw data is out there to see and yet everybody continues to follow along?

I’ve said my piece anyway, now I will await the belittling.[/quote]
No belittling from me. Well said, @Lostinacloud!

@MercyBooth

The State of Fear threads went pfffttt

That’s because they were trolled day and night by a poster who made it clear they wanted them removed, just those threads funny enough, as soon as they were gone so was the poster.

YY @userperuser Funny that.

@IncredulousOne

Yes, but irrespective of what we, you or anyone else "believes" it doesn't change the fact that none of the examples you give are "violent".

You seem to be okay with police shooting on non-violent protesters.

Yay! You go, girl!

I'll say again, you're making out as if the protesters were shot and killed. They were not. They had occupied and barricaded the city for days on end and were warned by police that their next step for dispersal would be rubber bullets. They returned the next day. What would you do if your city was taken over by people like this? Everything has to close, cars can't travel in as the protestors have blocked off the bridges and highways (and are jumping over and in people's cars) - since you're such an apologist, would you just sing them a song?

Far from being uneducated imbecile conspiracy theorists, those asking these questions are actually extremely well read and have taken lots of time to look at information across many platforms before offering their thoughts.

Presume you’re not referring to pontypridd then, since they have admitted they get their information from Mumsnet and their friends and don’t actually read anything any more?

Parts of the UK are taken over by protestors on the motorway at the moment despite injunctions preventing them from doing so. They aren't getting shot with rubber bullets. Instead they are dragged away and arrested.
When we had various riots over the years despite them being very violent especially the Tottenham one that spread throughout London, properties deliberately set on fire, and more, rubber bullets still were not used.
Those of us in the UK especially in large cities are more than aware of the disruption protesters cause. And whilst they remain peaceful no action from police is taken.
Violence from police has been shown time and time again to escalate situations.

@canigooutyet

Parts of the UK are taken over by protestors on the motorway at the moment despite injunctions preventing them from doing so. They aren't getting shot with rubber bullets. Instead they are dragged away and arrested. When we had various riots over the years despite them being very violent especially the Tottenham one that spread throughout London, properties deliberately set on fire, and more, rubber bullets still were not used. Those of us in the UK especially in large cities are more than aware of the disruption protesters cause. And whilst they remain peaceful no action from police is taken. Violence from police has been shown time and time again to escalate situations.

If you're not here, you don't know. Sorry. Unless you can write a full essay on the history of the Victorian trade union movement and how this intersects with modern societal pressures, including social media and COVID? No? What about the political leanings of the trade union leaders? Have the trade unions been historically violent? Etc.

If you have trouble with any of this, don't get into it. I haven't ever commented on British protests/political issues as I don't live there. I can't presume to know anything about it.

Ok. We need to know everything about a country’s history before we can pass judgement on use of rubber bullets by police on unarmed protesters.

You do realise every post you make in defence of police brutality proves the points raised by myself and others.

You have allowed yourself to be persuaded that police brutality is acceptable and you support their behaviour.

You support two policemen knocking an elderly woman to the ground and spraying pepper spray directly into her face.

You are beyond despicable.

You asked how we would like it if parts of our lives were disrupted by demonstrations. I replied to that as we do know.

Yes trade unions have been violent in the past. This hasn't just been France and the UK.

If you want to talk about political leanings, what about Algeria who had to fight to gain their own independence from France?

Although lol at I cannot talk if I'm not there. Suppose you was there during the Victorian trade movement.

And look at where police brutality has gotten other countries.
How many times have things kicked off in the USA because of police brutality?
oops I wasn't there so I cannot talk about it right?

@Worldgonecrazy

Ok. We need to know everything about a country’s history before we can pass judgement on use of rubber bullets by police on unarmed protesters.

You do realise every post you make in defence of police brutality proves the points raised by myself and others.

You have allowed yourself to be persuaded that police brutality is acceptable and you support their behaviour.

You support two policemen knocking an elderly woman to the ground and spraying pepper spray directly into her face.

You are beyond despicable.

How dare you. You take one isolated instance and use that to condemn a whole country? Call me despicable while defending people who shit on our Shine of Remembrance - a place they chose quite deliberately? Defending people who circled around and threatened my DD as she walked for hours home because the public transport was stopped - because as them? But no. They're angels.

@canigooutyet

You asked how we would like it if parts of our lives were disrupted by demonstrations. I replied to that as we do know.

Yes trade unions have been violent in the past. This hasn't just been France and the UK.

If you want to talk about political leanings, what about Algeria who had to fight to gain their own independence from France?

Although lol at I cannot talk if I'm not there. Suppose you was there during the Victorian trade movement.

I lived there?

*Lostinacloud

@pontypridd I understand your struggle. I’ve said the same thing on here many times. The very minute you ask a question about current policy or express a worry about where the next government idea is leading to, you are immediately belittled, accused of spreading mis-information and inevitably will be labelled an anti-vaxxer at some point even if you haven’t mentioned vaccines.
It’s ridiculous, seems many on here are satisfied that if it’s not actually happening right this minute or is happening elsewhere in the world then you shouldn’t talk about it or express concerns about something that hasn’t happened yet. The problem is, if enough people fail to become alert to the potential of what is being suggested then it will be brought in with little resistance and then it will be too late.

Far from being uneducated imbecile conspiracy theorists, those asking these questions are actually extremely well read and have taken lots of time to look at information across many platforms before offering their thoughts.
The mere fact that so much information is censored should be worrying enough but clearly not in most cases. Many don’t find it odd that the media cover 25 or so climate change/insulate Britain protesters but fail to cover hundreds of thousands protesting to keep hold of our basic human rights and freedoms each month?
And why has nobody asked why we are doing all this for an illness with such a small fatality rate with an average age of death over 80 years old? The raw data is out there to see and yet everybody continues to follow along?

I’ve said my piece anyway, now I will await the belittling.*

Very well said.

@canigooutyet

You asked how we would like it if parts of our lives were disrupted by demonstrations. I replied to that as we do know.

Yes trade unions have been violent in the past. This hasn't just been France and the UK.

If you want to talk about political leanings, what about Algeria who had to fight to gain their own independence from France?

Although lol at I cannot talk if I'm not there. Suppose you was there during the Victorian trade movement.

Oh. I get you. You really don't know what you're talking about! This is in Victoria, Australia. Not the Victorian period

By supporting police brutality you ARE supporting the pepper-spraying of an elderly lady by two male police officers.

Yes you are beyond despicable.

We cannot remain civilised and say “that instance of police brutality was okay and that instance was not”.

@MercyBooth

The State of Fear threads went pfffttt

The poster who was disrupting the state of fear threads was banned.

The threads continued, but the sheer volume of misinformation and scaremongering about coronavirus and the vaccines is why they were deleted. The moderators couldn't keep up with it.

The final nail in the coffin was when posters were gleefully calling for riots, which understandably MNHQ prob didn't want to be seen hosting...

And why has nobody asked why we are doing all this for an illness with such a small fatality rate with an average age of death over 80 years old?

How often will this be repeated? @Penfield

Yup the mean age of death is what would be considered elderly, but the range it includes is huge. Mortality rate is low, but any proportion translates to a large number of deaths when you're talking about entire populations being exposed. It's about the denominator.

Death is not the only problematic outcome. Long term disability, complications, impact on health services when they are saturated with COVID+ patients. The high likelihood of emergence of new variants when transmission is at such high levels (a la India, SA, UK).

If you don't understand this then I can get why you might think there's a huge conspiracy behind the COVID suppression policies though. Why do you think governments worldwide are doing "all this", if not to minimise the impacts of COVID?

The poster who was disrupting the state of fear threads was banned

And they returned numerous times with name changes until they were successful.

The problem is when everything that doesn’t fit the official message is labelled misinformation’ by fact checkers then it’s impossible to let people have a discussion without the cries of ‘see it’s been fact checked and it’s misinformation’.

People are understandably upset and anxious about the way that vaccine passports have been slowly normalised and civil liberties eroded and in moments of frustration may think there’s no other way out. That ‘calling for riots’ is being exaggerated and as the threads have been deleted no way to show what was actually said.

The posters on those threads were just people who enjoyed the debate together but were prevented from doing so by some posters derailing with the constant ‘why do you think that, why, why, why’ posts and the bat shit troll camped out day and night throwing out ‘right wing extremist’ accusations and claiming they were reporting MN to every place they could think of.

It was pathetic.

@userperuser

The poster who was disrupting the state of fear threads was banned

And they returned numerous times with name changes until they were successful.

The problem is when everything that doesn’t fit the official message is labelled misinformation’ by fact checkers then it’s impossible to let people have a discussion without the cries of ‘see it’s been fact checked and it’s misinformation’.

People are understandably upset and anxious about the way that vaccine passports have been slowly normalised and civil liberties eroded and in moments of frustration may think there’s no other way out. That ‘calling for riots’ is being exaggerated and as the threads have been deleted no way to show what was actually said.

The posters on those threads were just people who enjoyed the debate together but were prevented from doing so by some posters derailing with the constant ‘why do you think that, why, why, why’ posts and the bat shit troll camped out day and night throwing out ‘right wing extremist’ accusations and claiming they were reporting MN to every place they could think of.

It was pathetic.

You seem to be ignoring the rest of my post. The poster was banned, returned, and was banned again.

The threads continued, but the sheer volume of misinformation and scaremongering about coronavirus and the vaccines is why they were deleted. The moderators couldn't keep up with it.

The final nail in the coffin was when posters were gleefully calling for riots, which understandably MNHQ prob didn't want to be seen hosting...