Further considerations of mandatory vaccine

[Neron]

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/proposal-for-mandatory-covid-certification-in-a-plan-b-scenario-call-for-evidence

What are peoples thoughts on this proposal?
Personally, I don't think this is good.

@Geamhradh
As you obviously only find your news on msm then you would have bought into the “official” figure of 3000 given by the french health minister but non msm estimates that in fact closer to 300,000 health workers and fire personnel were yet to be vaccinated shortly before the 15th September suspension date. And yes they are currently suspended but they will be sacked if they don’t get vaccinated by mid October. Most are not “catching up” with their vaccines, they actually would like the choice over their own body.

Same as the minister of the interior declared that the Saturday protests across over 200 towns and cities in France each week are shrinking each week and never got above about 150,000.
Once again, non msm (and in fact also the police service) estimated nearly 3 million protesters a few Saturdays back and the government placed the figure around 120,000.

Gosh. It’s incredible what we are not being told.

Frightening. What can we do about this?

I don’t trust anything at all I read now. Anywhere.

[quote Lostinacloud]@Geamhradh
As you obviously only find your news on msm then you would have bought into the “official” figure of 3000 given by the french health minister but non msm estimates that in fact closer to 300,000 health workers and fire personnel were yet to be vaccinated shortly before the 15th September suspension date. And yes they are currently suspended but they will be sacked if they don’t get vaccinated by mid October. Most are not “catching up” with their vaccines, they actually would like the choice over their own body.[/quote]
That's not what Le Monde and the French health ministry are saying, is it?
Or, indeed, the "MSM" article you deliberately misquoted.
(Word to the "wise"- try not using the first article you find on Google to support your anti Vax agenda, it might come across as more credible and you might get caught out less often with your judicious approach to fact. Or at least namechange so we don't all roll our eyes and start looking for the bollocks hidden in plain sight)

@pontypridd

Gosh. It’s incredible what we are not being told.

Frightening. What can we do about this?

I don’t trust anything at all I read now. Anywhere.

How do you know what you're not being told if you're not being told? It's a conundrum isn't it?

@Lostinacloud

Same as the minister of the interior declared that the Saturday protests across over 200 towns and cities in France each week are shrinking each week and never got above about 150,000. Once again, non msm (and in fact also the police service) estimated nearly 3 million protesters a few Saturdays back and the government placed the figure around 120,000.

Yet people living in those towns seem to say the lowest numbers given were exaggeratedly low. I expect the French govt pay them to say these things. Oooh another batshit conspiracy hole for you to dive down. Google>>>>>>thataway.

Oh shut up @Geamhradh. If you want to keep sitting there lapping up all the bullshit in Le Monde and on BMFTV then you do that but no need to roll your eyes at people who care enough about the loss of personal freedom and choice to look a bit further than the media outlets firmly in government pockets. If you haven’t worked out by now that masses of misinformation is being spread by your own precious mainstream outlets then there’s no hope. Fucking fed up of being immediately called an anti vaxxer just for disagreeing with the party line. It’s called democracy and difference of opinion - well at least it used to be!!

Why is france even still under any restrictions? Daily cases are around 8000 per day at maximum and they have forced a huge vaccine uptake. Everyone has done as they were told and yet still the kids are in masks all day at school, adults are still in masks in most inside places and that’s before we even mention the pass sanitaire.
The fact no mainstream media outlet has asked this question or challenges why any of this is still in place demonstrates how ludicrous it has all become.

@pontypridd

Outrageous. How could it be good?

What will they do if you don’t comply? Put you in prison?

And how many jabs will be mandatory? Is the limit ever changing?

What is our country coming to?

Did you read the proposal. They are suggesting unlimited jabs, they are suggesting using a covid passport

did you read the proposal. they are suggesting unlimited jabs

ah the hysteria mounts

@HalzTangz

Where?

Literally the only reference I could find to boosters in the linked document is the following: the government expects that booster jabs would not be required in order to be considered fully vaccinated.

Doesn't sound like "unlimited jabs" (whatever that means) to me.

Considering the reports of reduced immunity (hence the need for a top up) the fact that a booster isn’t required to be considered fully vaccinated makes even less sense.

Am I now hiding from the news ( with it being such a pack of lies) or is government/Boris hiding from us?

Has anyone talked us through this proposal? If not why not.

@userperuser

Considering the reports of reduced immunity (hence the need for a top up) the fact that a booster isn’t required to be considered fully vaccinated makes even less sense.

Why?

Policies are about reducing and mitigating risk. A doubly vaccinated person has a certain level of immunity which will reduce the chance of infection. Given the sheer volume of coronavirus cases, most vaccinated people will be repeatedly "boosted" by coming into contact with the virus anyway.

There are no plans to roll out boosters to the general population, and not enough evidence to justify it, particularly regarding anything to do with vaccine certificates.

I think it's scaremongering to suggest that people will need to have "unlimited" vaccines to be considered vaccinated when there's no indication or rationale that this is the case (and directly goes against the actual statement in the document - the government expects that booster jabs would not be required in order to be considered fully vaccinated.)

ollyollyoxenfree

This time last year there were no plans to vaccinate beyond 50+ so frankly no plans for boosters in the general population means nothing as this is just as likely to change.

It’s not just the vaccinated who will build immunity through exposure.

The objection handling on these threads is so tedious.

This time last year there were no plans to vaccinate beyond 50+

This is definitely not the case.

It’s not just the vaccinated who will build immunity through exposure.
Urm, I never said it isn't? All I've done is point out that there is no current indication or rationale to suggest that people will be required to have boosters to be considered vaccinated.

What do you mean by "objection handling"?

@Megistotherium

Under Plan B, the government expects that mandatory vaccine-only certification for visitors to venues and events, and vaccine-or-test certification for the workforce would be introduced for the following venues and events:

all nightclubs, and other venues open after 1am with alcohol, music and dancing

indoor, crowded settings with 500 or more attendees where those attendees are likely to be in close proximity to people from other households, such as music venues or large receptions

outdoor, crowded settings with 4,000 or more attendees where those attendees are likely to be in close proximity to people from other households, such as outdoor festivals

any settings with 10,000 or more attendees, such as large sports and music stadia

There are some settings that will be exempt from requirements to use the NHS COVID Pass, such as:

communal worship

wedding ceremonies

funerals

other commemorative events

Sounds reasonable if the cases are high.

So, you have to have 2 vaccines to spend time in a nightclub for leisure but a test is OK if you work in one... How is that reasonable?

@ollyollyoxenfree

This time last year there were no plans to vaccinate beyond 50+

This is definitely not the case.

It’s not just the vaccinated who will build immunity through exposure.
Urm, I never said it isn't? All I've done is point out that there is no current indication or rationale to suggest that people will be required to have boosters to be considered vaccinated.

What do you mean by "objection handling"?

All new reports from this time last year confirm the government did not have plans at that time for mass roll out and the same was true for children until recently, it’s easily verified with a half hearted google.

News

Going on what’s happening in Israel right now.
They’ve fully vaccinated a high percentage of their population and have vaccine passports. But infection rates are rising again.

So they’ve introduced 3rd and now possibly 4th boosters for everyone. And you’re not counted as being fully vaccinated with just 2 jabs. The passport is no longer valid for those people.

I guess knowing this as many of us will ... is why there will be a lot of distrust and concern about the UK version.

Additionally, the government outright lied to the British public for months in regard to vaccine passports, they are not to be trusted.

How anyone can not see this by now @userperuser is beyond me.

I think very harsh things need to happen before the sleepy half of our population wake up.

Or maybe it’s like an abusive relationship. Very hard to see things for what they are. Until it’s too late.

pontypridd

Unfortunately it will probably be too late before people realise.

It’s exactly like an abusive relationship with the lies and manipulation from the government. It was not so long ago that SAGE owned up this behaviour.

I've had COVID (March 2020, what Reddit likes to call 'OG COVID') and 2 x AZ. I'd like a Pfizer booster but I'm under 50 so I'm going to have to wait. I'll take yours if you don't want it.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

This time last year there were no plans to vaccinate beyond 50+ so frankly no plans for boosters in the general population means nothing as this is just as likely to change.

It’s not just the vaccinated who will build immunity through exposure.

The objection handling on these threads is so tedious.

Agreed. Back in Feb this year, there were "no plans" to vaccinate schoolchildren...

@IncredulousOne

Pardon me? I don't live in England so I don't care that much about Boris - sorry. I do, however, live in Australia, so do enlighten me further on what you are going on about? (And I do have a fairly good handle on current events, thanks.)

I guess if you only look at MSM sources, you won't have seen the footage of (for example)

...the Aus police beating a non-violent 70 year old grandmother,
...or of the Aus police firing rubber bullets at a group of non-violent protestors at the war memorial,
...or of the footage of the police officer who walked up behind a non-violent individual, grabbing his head and slamming it into the ground.

It's like something out of a dystopian sci-fi, and certainly not what I'd expect in a western liberal democracy.

Actually, I'm quite aware of these as my DD lives in Melbourne and was terrified as she had to walk past these bloody idiot protesters who shut down the city for days. Anyway, these were unionists in the main, although they were infiltrated by antivaxxers apparently. The police had little option, sadly - sorry. These people were shutting down main arterial roads and bridges, jumping on cars - everything. They defecated and urinated on the Shrine of Remembrance. You are very wrong to call them "non-violent".