To think that unvaccinated people whining about rights and freedoms when they can’t go to a concert

[Anon778833]

Are entitled? I am so sick of hearing the vaccine hesitant / covid deniers say that it makes no difference if you’re vaccinated, so they should be allowed to go around doing exactly what they want even though they don’t care about the effects on other people or don’t believe the virus exists.

The government has not said that they will restrict medical treatments or impose financial penalties on people who don’t get vaccinated. I wouldn’t agree with that. That would be taking away rights.

But I personally don’t think that it’s a god given right to attend clubs, theatres and to go on holiday if you refuse to comply with health measures at the height of a pandemic.

Part of the problem is that we have a liar for a prime minister, so this just feeds people’s paranoia about the vaccine, it really does.

I’m not excusing it, just trying to understand.

I do however hear/see LOTS of angry condemnation of the unvaccinated:

"They should be denied medical treatment"
"Vaccines should be mandatory"
"They are beneath contempt!"
"Oh well, if they won't be vaccinated then it's just a natural consequence if they lose their job"
"I'm sick of the covidiots!"

Frankly that is as hyperbolic (and possibly meant so) as "wah wah my rights are being taken away it's like living under the nazis/stasi"

well, (disclaimer: there are of course covidiots and vaccination-refusers here in Germany too) in the land that actually lived under both the nazis and the stasi, they have ID cards which causes no problems, and vaccination certificates (usually on your phone).

Vaccination certificates (or certification of recovery from covid, or a negative test) is required for pretty much everything here and - if you don't want to do that? you don't have to go to theatres, restaurants, concerts, etc. (mostly not required any more for shops, although individual establishments may ask for it as a condition of entry).

The government here doesn't appear to be on the verge of annexing Austria or marching into the Czech republic (2nd disclaimer: I'm not a member of cabinet, who knows what they're really discussing?)

I was in Italy at the weekend, the situation is the same. It's the same in the Netherlands and Belgium too. I heard on the radio this morning that it will apply for entry to Switzerland too.

At the risk of having someone invoke the Fallacy of Relative Privation at me don't they have other worse things to worry about?

Part of the problem is that we have a liar for a prime minister, so this just feeds people’s paranoia about the vaccine, it really does.

I’m not excusing it, just trying to understand.

@Cactus1982

A work colleague of mine has recently had Covid and was really unwell. She’s been told that had she not been vaccinated she’d probably have ended up in hospital. She’s fairly young and really healthy (bit of a fitness fanatic) so really doesn’t fit the criteria of old/overweight/clinically vulnerable etc.

Anti vaxxeers are as thick as shit going by the posts I see from them on social media. Most of them can barely spell,

Things like running marathons and over exercising can make you more susceptible to illness. Vigorous exercise can have a temporary negative effect on the immune system

Matt Hancock the former health secretary has said he’s had death threats from them. Now whatever you think of him is that really acceptable? These people are fucking dangerous.

I mean, I certainly don’t think that governments around the world are all completely altruistic.

But given that Covid has caused chaos to everyone’s lives we have to find a way out of it. I don’t think it’s on to let everyone else deal with it and contribute nothing.

@Iggly

Less than 70% of adults have been double jabbed - and that’s not all down to hesitancy and anti-vax.

Some of it is that some people haven’t been able to have a second jab yet (like myself) - my first jab was later as I was under 40 at the time, my second jab was only due two weeks ago but they’ve closed the one centre in my town and I’ve not got my second until Wednesday.

So, I’m not happy at the talk of vaccine passports etc until everyone has actually had the chance to get double jabbed. I swear people forget that not everyone is over 40 and had their chance.

If it came in in the UK it would probably work like it did in places like Italy. Your Green Pass is given 12 days after your first dose and is valid up to the day of your second. If you don't get your second, then it's rescinded.

It is like the vegan joke "how do you know if someone is vegan? They'll tell you. Now
replaced with anti vaccine crew.
I actively avoid certain people.
I don't care with they do with their life personally, it is the daft horror stories and fakebook news they enjoy spreading that annoys me.

But given that Covid has caused chaos to everyone’s lives wehaveto find a way out of it. I don’t think it’s on to let everyone else deal with it and contribute nothing

What makes you think they did nothing?

The few people I know who haven't had the vaccine complied with everything else. All these assumptions...do you spend your life inventing your own misery

I agree. But I do worry for those not able to be vaccinated for medical reasons and I've seen posts from a few on mn.

I didn't think vaccine avoidance was that much of a thing until delta variant arrived and swept through my son's nursery like wildfire. I'd assumed the staff, working in close contact with tens of grotty snotty children would chosen to be vaccinated. Oh no. Because fake news about problems with the vaccines is rife amongst the young. Every single staff member who wasn't vaccinated caught it. And those who were didn't.

@TertiusLydgate

I agree entirely.

I (unfortunately) have a friend who is an anti-vaxxer. She has said she’ll only have it if it curtails her chances of a holiday. Unbelievably self-serving and ignorant.

Yep. Young lad at work bleating on about being scared to have it but then saying he 'had' to have it. I asked why he was being forced to have it, and he said 'because I want to go on holiday!'

What a dick

@EmeraldShamrock

It is like the vegan joke "how do you know if someone is vegan? They'll tell you. Now replaced with anti vaccine crew. I actively avoid certain people. I don't care with they do with their life personally, it is the daft horror stories and fakebook news they enjoy spreading that annoys me.

haven't heard that about vegans, but quite. You can spot them (anti-V) on here too as once they've compared the vaccine to a gas chamber, they use the fat smoker analogy, then throw in a few dodgy names they've found on Google. And obviously, the bat signal goes out on their special thread that they think nobody knows about.

It is about freedom and rights - not just those that you agree with OP.

But it's also about responsibilities - not just the ones that various PP don't personally find irksome.

@Whatwouldscullydo

You sound incredibly defensive. This is an Internet forum so people post anecdotal stuff based upon their personal life experiences. All the people I know who won’t take the vaccine also enjoy going up to people in supermarkets with no mask on to ‘wake them up’ and encourage the virus to spread by going to stupid protests.

I am sure this isn’t everyone but there is definitely a vocal section of society who genuinely thinks that covid is a hoax.

Not everyone is eligible for a flu vaccine. Comparing covid with flu is disingenuous

No it isn't. Both viruses can kill the vulnerable and overwhelm the NHS. I am not 'eligible' but I've been paying for one for the last 10 years because it protects the vulnerable. Going by your post you don't bother with the flu vaccine so yes you are a hypocrite.

@lljkk

I am so sick of hearing the vaccine hesitant / covid deniers

it's weird, because I don't have a single person like that in my real world social contacts nor do I get exposed to them online (not on MN, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn...) Not one denier & I can only think of one vaccine hesitant person (she actually was vaccinated but regrets it)

I do however hear/see LOTS of angry condemnation of the unvaccinated:

"They should be denied medical treatment"
"Vaccines should be mandatory"
"They are beneath contempt!"
"Oh well, if they won't be vaccinated then it's just a natural consequence if they lose their job"
"I'm sick of the covidiots!"

etc.

No matter how much I snooze or mute or unfollow, still this crap pops into my time lines. It's frustrating when you can't filter out the intolerant ignorance. Sadly my D-dad is one of the people spouting half of that stuff, I try hard to talk about something else with him.

You are so lucky, on my social media platforms there are several. All spouting unquantified soundbites. My brothers, friends wife's cousin is a nurse in ICU and she says...." Maybe that says more about the company I used to keep as these are not current friends. time to delete.

People think.lots of things. They still have a right to decide what they put in their bodies whether we like it or disagree with it or not.

People are always going to think things we think are crazy. But having seen the thought police idea has panned out again I'd be careful what you wish fir.

Covid passports are for amateurs - we should feed all antivaxers through a giant mincer and make them into fertilizer

@MaggieFS

I agree. But I do worry for those not able to be vaccinated for medical reasons and I've seen posts from a few on mn.

I didn't think vaccine avoidance was that much of a thing until delta variant arrived and swept through my son's nursery like wildfire. I'd assumed the staff, working in close contact with tens of grotty snotty children would chosen to be vaccinated. Oh no. Because fake news about problems with the vaccines is rife amongst the young. Every single staff member who wasn't vaccinated caught it. And those who were didn't.

There seem to be a disproportionate number of those unable to have the vaccine on Mumsnet. Someone linked to the minute category of people medically unable and it worked out at something so tiny (and covers certain severe allergies to specific ingredients in certain vaccines mainly)

No it isn't. Both viruses can kill the vulnerable and overwhelm the NHS. I am not 'eligible' but I've been paying for one for the last 10 years because it protects the vulnerable. Going by your post you don't bother with the flu vaccine so yes you are a hypocrite.

FYI I get it free because I’m a carer so take your insults elsewhere.

@Machchchengo

Choosing not to be vaccinated is not decision that has no impact on others.

So am I to assume every single one of you on this thread has their flu vaccine booked? I mean not having your flu vaccine impacts on others and the NHS. Bunch of hypocrites full of hot air and not much else.

The flu vaccine isn't available to all on the NHS. My mil is in her early 60s and has requested it for the last 3 years and been refused each year. She chooses to pay privately at the pharmacy for it.

@Gingerkittykat

All covid passports do is make the conspiracy nuts bleat on about Nazi Germany and likening themselves to Jewish people.

I do think there are genuine civil liberty issues with vaccine passports, especially in places like Ireland where you now need some kind of passport to go to a coffee shop.

I think it is totally reasonable to make front line health workers be vaccinated but not so sure about commercial premises.

I have no problem whatsoever with showing my covid cert and photo ID going into cafes, bars and restaurants here in Ireland. It’s no big deal, and if it means these businesses can stay open after the three lockdowns we’ve had, it’s a very small ask. I’m actually glad that our restaurants etc are asking to see these certs. I feel safer as it means that they are following the covid regulations we have here.

What all of this has demonstrated most clearly is how poor the average level of scientific and mathematical education is in this country. People don’t understand how vaccines work , they bandy about phrases like ‘herd immunity’ without any understanding of what they mean.They can’t calculate or understand risk or probability let alone extrapolate it at a population level etc etc

The unvaccinated through choice should have their lives restricted. If they catch covid and end up in hospital they are taking up a bed which would most probably not have been needed if they had had the vaccine and therefore denying treatment to someone else who's illness could not have been prevented.

Extremely selfish.

Borderline terrorism? I’ll agree with that but with the people who put an unreasonable amount of pressure on a choice that isn’t theirs.

I’m not vaccinated, I have severe health anxiety that revolves around having allergic reactions.. the whole waiting 15 minutes to see if you have anaphylaxis after the vaccine put me into an absolute spiral - I know I should have the vaccine, and I keep telling myself I’ll go to the next walk in. But the only way I can describe my anxiety is like walking into a brick wall, I can only get so far until I just can’t break through that last bit of worry to actually have it done.. then of course I worry about catching covid too. It’s a lose-lose situation for me. But I still have everyone barking in my ear calling me this that and the other for not getting the vaccine. It’s not that I’m a covid denier, I very much believe in covid. I think it’s great that people are getting vaccinated. But I also don’t make post after post on forums about how selfish and shitty those who are or aren’t vaccinated are. Yeah sure you’ll get some people who do wear a tin foil hat and try to scaremonger. But it works both ways.

Both the vaccinated and unvaccinated make some batshit crazy judgemental posts about the opposing party.. but there are a lot more post against the unvaccinated than there are the vaccinated.

Live and let live. Don’t judge others people choices.