To think that unvaccinated people whining about rights and freedoms when they can’t go to a concert

[Anon778833]

Are entitled? I am so sick of hearing the vaccine hesitant / covid deniers say that it makes no difference if you’re vaccinated, so they should be allowed to go around doing exactly what they want even though they don’t care about the effects on other people or don’t believe the virus exists.

The government has not said that they will restrict medical treatments or impose financial penalties on people who don’t get vaccinated. I wouldn’t agree with that. That would be taking away rights.

But I personally don’t think that it’s a god given right to attend clubs, theatres and to go on holiday if you refuse to comply with health measures at the height of a pandemic.

@MaxNormal

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

what a brilliant argument, really sums up how smart you all are.

Not sure quite how to take a lot of the pro-vaxxers on here. Legitimately, if you want a vaccine, if you think that's the way to safeguard your health, you should have that right.

But some of the comments, calling the unvaccinated people selfish, or uneducated, or idiots, you know it's just the most divisive and appalling attitude to take towards others who have a different opinion, and it absolutely is reminiscent of late-thirties Germany, 100%. The kind of vicious language I'm seeing used by people absolutely blows me away - usually the same people blowing off about social responsibility, while displaying a level of intolerance that would make Torquemada blush.

The nature of public vaccination is inherently experimental. Vaccines are inherently toxic. They HAVE to be to instigate an immune response to the attenuated virus being inserted, otherwise you might as well inject people with the actual virus. It's nothing new. But it's a legitimate response to oppose government mandates - so quit with the divisive rhetoric, for pity's sake.

I find it funny that people think their Covid passport gives them freedom. They're so free that they need to show their pass to get into a nightclub. That's not freedom actually.

It is a good thing to build knowledge and far better to accept facts than digging ones heels in being unable to admit to a mistake

Where’s the mistake? You claimed you needed a shot to enter an unnamed South American country, I’m telling you that it was probably just recommended, not required.

That page backs up nothing you said. It really is just a handful of sub-Saharan African countries that requires it. Note that the pasted portion says ‘certain countries’ with no further detail.

The IPV vaccine contains a killed (inactivated) virus, so it cannot cause polio. just some insight into the polio vaccine. Yes my parents in the 50s consented as it was devastating for children particularly
The covid vaccine is not yet an inactivated virus - I understand laboratories are working on developing one. At that point it will possibly behave more like the IPV vaccine and 3 monthly boosters will not be necessary.

'Firstly, it's not really about the unvaccinated's capacity to transmit. It's about the potential for the unvaccinated to take up hospital beds, thus overwhelming the health service and preventing others from getting treatment.'

Yep. I have some family up north in an area with a pathetic take up rate. 50% have had both jabs. Yet it will indeed be the other 50% unvaccinated wanging on about the shit NHS when all services are stretched to accommodate them.

They should maybe give out a tenner per jab, they'd all be queuing then.

Peru was named in the link I shared which made clear the guidance on requiring vaccination changed.

For the third time, I am telling you it was required not recommended. Others e.g. Rabies were recommended. I can't phrase it any other way. If you continue to interpret that as it being recommend either because it's what happened to you on the other side of the world, or because it suits your cause, then so be it.

@FflosFfantastig

I find it funny that people think their Covid passport gives them freedom. They're so free that they need to show their pass to get into a nightclub. That's not freedom actually.

I need to show a ticket or Oyster card whenever I travel on public transport. I have to show my membership card to get into a National Trust property. I feel perfectly free, thanks.

With regards to restrictions within one's own country, I think it is far more important that a business owner or event organiser retains the right to apply entry restrictions of any shape and size upon their potential patrons. Nothing is stopping the unvaccinated from setting up their own cafes, pubs or restaurants. They are actively choosing not to partake in something which is for the greater good so why should the majority have to accept them?

@MaggieFS

Cafes, pubs and restaurants cannot apply entry restrictions of any shape or size. e.g. You cannot say you only want white people in a bar. Or thin people. Or women only. Or Atheists. Or straight people.

There is no precedent for this at all. Many are happy that we set that precedent with entry restrictions but there are potential consequences to creating such an environment and if you feel that is right, that is ok. But tolerating that other people might not like this is also what being grown up means.

@Machchchengo

Choosing not to be vaccinated is not decision that has no impact on others.

So am I to assume every single one of you on this thread has their flu vaccine booked? I mean not having your flu vaccine impacts on others and the NHS. Bunch of hypocrites full of hot air and not much else.

I had my flu vaccine last Friday. I had a pneumonia vaccine last year.

I believe those who choose to be unvaccinated against covid should be subject to additional restrictions.

I believe those who choose to be unvaccinated against covid should be subject to additional restrictions

And I believe that people should get themselves vaccinated and stop telling other people what to put or not put in their bodies. I bet a lot of you would be spitting feathers at the idea that someone should tell a woman whether to get an abortion or not, or somewhat less emotive to lose weight so they don't clog up the hospitals with obesity-caused illnesses, but why is it ok to tell someone to have a vaccination they don't want?

Many countries require vaccines against a range of virus to travel to/through them. It's not a new concept and I've yet to hear a vaccine opposer speak out about the "injustice" of needing yellow fever or malaria vaccine certificate for certain countries

So many people raise this argument and it is a nonsensical one. I do not need a yellow fever certificate to visit the countries I want to visit. I can live my life very happily without visiting those countries.

It is a lot more difficult to live your life without going to a library or a cafe or using public transport. I don't actually care if people need vaccine passports for nightclubs as I will never darken the door of one, but in other countries like Germany or Switzerland the restrictions are far greater.

It's totally fine to be obese and clogging up the NHS. No-one gives a hoot about that.

"It is estimated that the NHS spent £6.1 billion on overweight and obesity-related ill-health in 2014 to 2015.

Annual spend on the treatment of obesity and diabetes is greater than the amount spent on the police, the fire service and the judicial system combined."

from here

But yeah.....unvaccinated.

It's mind boggling.

But if you are a fatty and calling for the unvaccinated to lose their rights.....watch out, you'll be next!

This is a short term measure, to help the nation get back to the “normal” these anti vaxxers claim is what they want

Hmmmm. I wonder how short term. Denmark is doing away with the requirement because it has enough people vaccinated. Yet Wales is only introducing the requirement in mid October - when, presumably, everyone who wants to be vaccinated in Wales will have had the opportunity to be. So why do you need it after that?

And there was talk of requiring vaccine passports for the Commonwealth Games which are next August. So not so short term.

@hamstersarse

It's totally fine to be obese and clogging up the NHS. No-one gives a hoot about that.

"It is estimated that the NHS spent £6.1 billion on overweight and obesity-related ill-health in 2014 to 2015.

Annual spend on the treatment of obesity and diabetes is greater than the amount spent on the police, the fire service and the judicial system combined."

from here

But yeah.....unvaccinated.

It's mind boggling.

But if you are a fatty and calling for the unvaccinated to lose their rights.....watch out, you'll be next!

6 billion is nuts!!! Why on earth there is not more messaging around this....but yes let's focus on the unvaccinated!!!!

Apparently only the fully vaccinated will be able to attend the World Cup in Qatar as spectators. If they extend this requirement to professional footballers and officials there's going to be an interesting situation.

I was rather appalled to read how low the vaccination take up rate is at many Premier league clubs.

@hamstersarse

If we are going to go down the track of deservedness of care, COVID is the least of people’s worries

With 67% of people being overweight or obese we absolutely enter dangerous territory for most people.

Lifestyle diseases take up the majority of NHS time and budget. Indeed if people weren’t obese and Ill because of lifestyle then the NHS would have been able to cope with a novel virus no problem….sort of what it was made for!

Could not agree more!

@lockdownmadnessdotcom

I believe those who choose to be unvaccinated against covid should be subject to additional restrictions

And I believe that people should get themselves vaccinated and stop telling other people what to put or not put in their bodies. I bet a lot of you would be spitting feathers at the idea that someone should tell a woman whether to get an abortion or not, or somewhat less emotive to lose weight so they don't clog up the hospitals with obesity-caused illnesses, but why is it ok to tell someone to have a vaccination they don't want?

Personally, I'm not, but I'm agreeing with the OP that I don't have issue with those choosing not to have the vaccine being prevented from entering places.

That's very different from telling them to get the vaccine.

"In 2019/20 there were more than 1 million hospital admissions linked to obesity in England, an increase of 17 per cent on the previous year"

That's quite some increase.

To put it in context, there have been 536,540 admissions to hospital for Covid throughout all of the pandemic. So in 18 months, give or take.

Come to think of it, really obese people should be banned from large events.

Much higher risk of falling over, getting injured and needing medical assistance:

"Thirty-one studies including a total of 1,758,694 participants were selected from 7,815 references. Pooled estimates showed that obese older adults have an increased risk of falls compared with nonobese counterparts (24 studies; relative risk: 1.16; 95% CI: 1.07–1.26; I2: 90%). Obesity was also associated with an increased risk of multiple falls (four studies; relative risk: 1.18; 95% CI: 1.08–1.29; I2: 0%)."

meta analysis here

See where this is going yet?

@hamstersarse

It's totally fine to be obese and clogging up the NHS. No-one gives a hoot about that.

"It is estimated that the NHS spent £6.1 billion on overweight and obesity-related ill-health in 2014 to 2015.

Annual spend on the treatment of obesity and diabetes is greater than the amount spent on the police, the fire service and the judicial system combined."

from here

But yeah.....unvaccinated.

It's mind boggling.

But if you are a fatty and calling for the unvaccinated to lose their rights.....watch out, you'll be next!

👏

I also hope anyone calling for the unvaccinated to lose their rights have never smoked or drank alcohol in their lives too

So would it be ok for a healthy, unvaccinated person to receive treatment for other ailments other than covid? Or should they be denied all hospital treatment?

Are we differentiating between unvaccinated plus recovered from prior infection and unvaccinated plus never had covid?

@hamstersarse

It's totally fine to be obese and clogging up the NHS. No-one gives a hoot about that.

"It is estimated that the NHS spent £6.1 billion on overweight and obesity-related ill-health in 2014 to 2015.

Annual spend on the treatment of obesity and diabetes is greater than the amount spent on the police, the fire service and the judicial system combined."

from here

But yeah.....unvaccinated.

It's mind boggling.

But if you are a fatty and calling for the unvaccinated to lose their rights.....watch out, you'll be next!

Couldn’t agree more.

Those calling for the ‘unvaccinated’ to be refused basic freedoms give me the rage particularly when their motive is to protect themselves due to their ill health induced by their poor lifestyle choices.

Agree they could soon get a taste of their own medicine.

Today 13:35 ArnoldtheAngryTapir

hamstersarse
If we are going to go down the track of deservedness of care, COVID is the least of people’s worries

With 67% of people being overweight or obese we absolutely enter dangerous territory for most people.

Lifestyle diseases take up the majority of NHS time and budget. Indeed if people weren’t obese and Ill because of lifestyle then the NHS would have been able to cope with a novel virus no problem….sort of what it was made for!
Yep, fat people, smokers and drinkers not getting automatic NHS care would save an absolute fortune, miles more than the small number who aren't vaccinated!!!“

I’m prepared to be torn to shreds but I do think this is a serious consideration going forward.

The birth rate in the UK is falling, we can’t fund social care now. Providence knows what provision will be in 10/20 years.

I absolutely believe in free health care at the point if need. The first and maybe even the second time, because we’re all human and changing our mindset and dealing with trauma is far from easy.

If, though, you’ve had one/two lung cancer surgeries and continue to smoke, a liver transplant and continue to drink, a gastric band and continue to overeat ( which counter intuitive though it sounds is perfectly possible, I know) is perfectly possible, do we find those patients forever? Or do we say three strikes and you’re out?

Personally, I believe the latter.

Fund, not find.