If you do not want your 12-15 yr old to have the vaccine but are vaccinated yourself, why?

[Cupoteap]

Just reading through the Will your 12-15 be vaccinated thread. If you are vaccinated, but do not want your 12-15 year old to have due to low risk if they catch it, what age would be the ideal time to get it?

@Peteycat

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

@Peteycat back up what you’re saying rather than leaving leading statements designed to shut people down without having to back up your claims. It’s cowardly and lazy.

There’s a reason why it’s considered really bad form to post threads about threads which is essentially what you’re doing right now. I mean it doesn’t take a lot of effort reach conclusions about you either given your prevalence on this board but generally people have the courtesy to keep to the thread topic at hand instead of calling you out on your constant and consistent bs.

can I apologise again to the PPs on this

This is an issue with a lot of benefits for some families (like ours), but clearly not for others - if my child had a history of anaphylaxis with vaccines, I'd be really wary of giving them a vaccine too.

Just hoping we get through the winter without too much disruption for them, take care and I hope things go well whatever you choose.

@Cornettoninja

"There’s a reason why it’s considered really bad form to post threads about threads which is essentially what you’re doing right now. I mean it doesn’t take a lot of effort reach conclusions about you either given your prevalence on this board but generally people have the courtesy to keep to the thread topic at hand instead of calling you out on your constant and consistent bs."

People have no courtesy for others by not allowing them to be concerned about their children and shutting them down at every opportunity.

Not everyone will reach a negative conclusion about me because they feel the same. I am not alone in this situation.

@Peteycat

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

This is hilarious... you are on every thread beating everyone down with your opposing opinions and rudeness, MNHQ need to take a close look at the quantity and content of your posts as you are never anything but disrespectful

[quote Peteycat]@Cornettoninja

"There’s a reason why it’s considered really bad form to post threads about threads which is essentially what you’re doing right now. I mean it doesn’t take a lot of effort reach conclusions about you either given your prevalence on this board but generally people have the courtesy to keep to the thread topic at hand instead of calling you out on your constant and consistent bs."

People have no courtesy for others by not allowing them to be concerned about their children and shutting them down at every opportunity.[/quote]
I think you’re applying your personal experience and thinking it applies to everyone. It doesn’t.

If by ‘shutting down’ you mean, disagreeing and backing that up with more than feelings then I’d suggest it’s still you that’s the issue. Add to that you really have no room to talk about being disrespectful.

I was quite in doubt about my 12 year old having it. But then ...

She's had covid for the last two weeks and still really fatigued and ill with it. A very healthy fit girl who has previously missed 1 day of school since YR.

She's been wiped out.

My 9 year old lad also had it and was ill for one day, now totally fine. It hardly affected him.

So I think it is very variable/random how it strikes (or rather, to me more accurate, how your immune system responds to it). Which I think might be why it causes such angst - people have such different expenses of it

If I had a 12-15 year old who hadn't yet had covid would definitely want them to have the vax!!

My dd obv has now had it so don't think she needs the vax as natural immunity.

• experiences

@Bumpsadaisie I hope your DD gets better soon

To add the reason for my initial doubt was an idea that covid wouldn't really affect my 12 year old therefore query why take any risk however small with a vaccine.

Last two weeks has totally changed my outlook.

As has fact that DH and I both double jabbed have had it and felt absolutely rotten for 10 days. Very thankful for the vaccine as dread to think what it would be like unvaccinated.

[quote herecomesthsun]@Bumpsadaisie I hope your DD gets better soon[/quote]
Thank you!!

It's made me realise how lucky we are that our kids haven't ever really been ill for longer than a day or two, tbh.

Really made me feel for parents with kids with long term illness. Take my hat off to you.

1. Children hospitalised for Covid mostly have risk factors eg underlying conditions or obesity.
2. Infection presents chance of a v v rare serious outcome.
3. Vax presents a chance of a v v serious outcome.
4. It's a toss up between the two.
5. Natural infection is broader especially against variants.
6. A huge % of adolescents already infected
7. Proof of previous infection enables access to Green Pass in Europe ideal for travel whereas one vaccine does not.

The email came today for Suffolk schools. To consent or not to consent. Discussed it with my DS12 and he hasn't a clue tbh if he should have it.

Yes he's had MMR and Flu jabs but they've been around longer so the long term affects are better known. I remember the controversy around MMR and Autism but that was debunked. My DS has Autism but I truly believe it was genetic.

If the jab doesn't stop you from getting Covid then it doesn't stop you from passing it on. Or does it only work for some people? Who knows! I'd much rather my CV DM had a booster jab.

I've got until 27th to decide .

I think kids are unlikely to be really ill.

But I've had the jab and had minimal side effects from it.

I would rather my DD had had that than been ill for two weeks and ending up missed the first two weeks of year 8 - first time at secondary not in bubbles and moving around school etc.

Overall I'm grateful she's fine and that we even have a choice. I know she will soon catch up on her work and settle in at school. It's not the end of the world.

But I know if she had been vaccinated a couple of months ago she wouldn't have had to miss school I'm sure.

@Walkingalot

If the jab doesn't stop you from getting Covid then it doesn't stop you from passing it on. Or does it only work for some people? Who knows! I'd much rather my CV DM had a booster jab.

One dose is around ~55% effective against preventing infection in the first place - so your child would be far less likely to get COVID if vaccinated (and therefore cannot pass it on).

Your DM should be getting a booster soon so isn't an either/or situation.

I would expect there will be opportunities for your DC to get vaccinated after that date, so wouldn't feel pressured into it, however worth bearing in mind they're likely to be exposed in schools so if you were keen for protection makes sense to do it now rather than wait.

@Peteycat

Not everyone will reach a negative conclusion about me because they feel the same. I am not alone in this situation.

You are not alone.

Indeed, it is interesting to see that the tide of public opinion does seem to be turning despite the efforts of large parts of the MSM to stifle any views that are contrary to their narrative.

@pontypridd

I understand COVID could make autoimmune conditions worse *@herecomesthsun*

But what do you think about the Pfizer vaccine which our kids will be getting:

Putting Pfizer into your body, that high jacks your DNA, in order to trick your cells into making a virus like protein, so your tricked immune system attacks it, seems to me like an extremely good way to acquire an auto immune disease

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Where did you read this @pontypridd? There's a lot of inaccuracies so wouldn't be trusting the source!!

mRNA vaccines go nowhere near your DNA as it's not possible for it to enter the nucleus - it also cannot make changes to your cells DNA or hijack it in any way. It very quickly degraded by cells once it has been used to code for the spike protein. All vaccines "trick" your immune system into producing an immune system without risking exposure to the actual pathogen.

Autoimmune disorders are caused by exposure to foreign antigen - there's a chance that if these antigens are similar to any of your bodies cells, the antibodies produced will attack both. This can be seen in situations such as viral infection and type 1 diabetes, chlamydia infection and heart disease, and a certain type of ovarian cancer NMDA receptors in the brain.

This is far more likely with pathogen infection than than by vaccination, and there is no reason why an mRNA vaccine would be more likely to cause an AI reaction than one using traditional tech.

typos galore - immune response not immune system

[quote ollyollyoxenfree]@Walkingalot

If the jab doesn't stop you from getting Covid then it doesn't stop you from passing it on. Or does it only work for some people? Who knows! I'd much rather my CV DM had a booster jab.

One dose is around ~55% effective against preventing infection in the first place - so your child would be far less likely to get COVID if vaccinated (and therefore cannot pass it on).

Your DM should be getting a booster soon so isn't an either/or situation.

I would expect there will be opportunities for your DC to get vaccinated after that date, so wouldn't feel pressured into it, however worth bearing in mind they're likely to be exposed in schools so if you were keen for protection makes sense to do it now rather than wait.[/quote]
Fact check: The 55% effective against preventing infection is inaccurate.

The recent data from the PHE vaccine surveillance report shows that for those over 40, there are higher case rates (i.e. rates per 100,000) amongst the vaccinated than amongst the unvaccinated. This is also supported by data from UCL which was posted on another thread.

However, based upon the current data, vaccination does still reduce the likelihood of symptoms, hospitalisation and death.

@IncredulousOne

The 55% figure was announced by CMOs based on current available data - trawling through sources until you find a dataset that disproves it isn't helpful. There is obviously a huge amount of heterogeneity.

Lots of explanations of other threads why reporting that infection rates in vaccinated people are higher in unvaccinated is problematic - floating numerators for one

[quote ollyollyoxenfree]@IncredulousOne

The 55% figure was announced by CMOs based on current available data - trawling through sources until you find a dataset that disproves it isn't helpful. There is obviously a huge amount of heterogeneity.

Lots of explanations of other threads why reporting that infection rates in vaccinated people are higher in unvaccinated is problematic - floating numerators for one[/quote]
Hmmm, "55% figure announced by CMO's" ... without showing any of the underlying data. They might as well just say "the vaccine are safe and effective" and be done with any further questions.

For what it's worth, Israel's data also bears out the negligible protection against infection: case rates amongst 2x vaccinated and unvaccinated are more or less identical. Of course, now that they're rolling out the boosters, the 2x vaccinated will soon be counted as "not fully vaccinated" (if that's not already the case...)

I don’t understand the narrative that vaccines don’t prevent infections and that’s the end of the conversation. Looking just at the raw case figures they definitely have an impact even if it isn’t achieving total sterility.

Given how high cases rose before each of the lockdowns and how they’re rising now with barely any mitigation I really struggle whenever I spot someone saying vaccines don’t prevent infection/transmission. They do, otherwise we’d be in a very different situation right now, basically where we were at the beginning of the year because the proportion of breakthrough serious infections would still be too high for the NHS to cope with it it was still rising exponentially like it was.

Vaccines do prevent transmission for a significant number of those who have received it, but it’s not a given hence the need for caution.

Cases (and deaths) are higher at this point of the year compared to last year when there were no vaccinations.

How is that explained?

I don’t know btw

@hamstersarse there are a lot of variables that make now different to this time last year. It’s not a straight comparison.

We got cases down really low last year and maintained mitigations (contact isolations, masks, distancing etc). Cases have been high (20-40kish) throughout summer but actually really stable considering the speed we watched them rise in previous waves and the lack of mitigations we currently have in place. I can’t see how that stability isn’t down to vaccines preventing transmission to a degree.

Deaths and hospitalisations will always rise in proportion to cases but that formula has changed. If you compare a previous point before vaccines of similar case numbers to now there’s a dramatic reduction in both. We can theoretically tolerate a doubling/trebling of the case numbers we’re seeing now before getting to a point where dramatic interventions would be needed.

@hamstersarse

Cases (and deaths) are higher at this point of the year compared to last year when there were no vaccinations.

How is that explained?

I don’t know btw

I don't get this either. People keep commenting on here that it's because nothing is locked down now, but nothing was locked down last summer was it? People were doing the same then as now as far as I can remember.

IMO vaccines have done a great job at keeping the more likely people out of hospital/dying (although this protection seems to be waning). But as far as transmission goes then they generally don't really seem to help that much, or if they do it's only minimal, maybe less and less effect on limiting transmission as time from vaccination goes on?

I would like to stress that this is my personal opinion based on what I'm seeing locally and with national data. Other opinions are allowed and if other people think differently then I'm good with that :)

As a result of vaccinations not really stopping much transmission then there is more circulating illness, so cases have increased as a largely vaccinated population have thrown caution to the wind. Hence lots of cases.