If you do not want your 12-15 yr old to have the vaccine but are vaccinated yourself, why?

[Cupoteap]

Just reading through the Will your 12-15 be vaccinated thread. If you are vaccinated, but do not want your 12-15 year old to have due to low risk if they catch it, what age would be the ideal time to get it?

@flattopgr1nch because it’s per 100,000 people.

I don't get that graph - how can there possibly be that many over-80s still unvaccinated?

This is a couple of weeks old now but shows the numbers unvaccinated.

Because they are already at very low risk from complications from covid, so there’s no point in risking their health with a vaccine. I know that the vaccine had an effect on my periods, which isn’t nice but is fine for someone who has had all their children, but we have no evidence that it would be safe for people going through puberty.

Because the JVCI didn't find the health benefits for that age group to be worth it. I had side effects from my vaccine. I don't see the point in the children having the same when there is no health benefit to them. I don't care about social benefits, nor do I see how that works with a vaccine that doesn't prevent transmission.

We also don't know anything about the impacts of the vaccine on long covid - it doesn't necessarily follow that it would reduce their chances of having those side effects. You can still get covid whilst vaccinated, who knows if it might make long covid more likely?

It also affected my periods so I am concerned about the affects with puberty.
We all had covid already so presumably have antibodies. (me dh and 18+ ds vaccinated)
When we did have covid, ds 16 was the least ill.
Even with all of this and the other stuff pp mentioned, the gov are still pushing and that makes me feel uneasy.
My mum works with elderly (all vaccinated) and loads have got it since visitation started up again. She got it too and is vaccinated so surely it would be better to do boosters to those in need?

When the decision is made by scientists, not politicians

@flattopgr1nch It's a rate. You get there by dividing the number of deaths in each category by the number of positive cases, then multiplying by 100,000 (I think it's this last stage which confuses people).

So if there were about 830 cases in the unvaccinated over-80s (and I think we can all agree there's that many unvaccinated over-80s) and 1 death, you divide 1 by 830, and multiply that by 100,000 to get a figure of about 120 deaths per 100,000 cases. So you don't need to have a huge number of people to get that rate.

@Cupoteap
That I don’t have an answer for. My son is 12, so at the moment I feel more comfortable with 16 plus which would also give us 4 years to see if anything long term is happening with the rest of the world!

From the JCVI…

On children and young people aged 12-15 who do not have underlying health conditions, the JCVI have advised that the benefits from vaccination are marginally greater than the potential known harms but that there is considerable uncertainty regarding the magnitude of the potential harms. From an individual health benefit perspective, they feel the margin of benefit, is considered too small to support advice on a universal programme of vaccination of otherwise healthy 12-15-year-old children at this time. They do however acknowledge that there may be wider issues to consider which are outside the remit of the JCVI to evaluate, such as wider societal impacts, including educational benefits, where the CMO would be better placed to advise, with representation from JCVI.

Because i believe it’s unethical to vaccinate children to protect society as a whole against an illness that is extremely low risk to them.
Because the JCVI stated that the benefits to them aren’t worth the risk.
Because I was so ill from the vaccine and it has messed my periods up so I dont want that going in a child’s pubescent body.

I hope my opinions and reasons are good enough for you.

My 13 year old is extremely fit and healthy and on balance we are more concerned about vaccine risk than covid risk. He has said he doesn't want the vaccine and has already had covid with very minor symptoms. I actually think take up amongst his friendship group will be low. My older DC had worse covid symptoms and she wanted the vaccine and had it, as did her friends.

@AllisoninWunderland

Because i believe it’s unethical to vaccinate children to protect society as a whole against an illness that is extremely low risk to them. Because the JCVI stated that the benefits to them aren’t worth the risk. Because I was so ill from the vaccine and it has messed my periods up so I dont want that going in a child’s pubescent body.

I hope my opinions and reasons are good enough for you.

Because i believe it’s unethical to vaccinate children to protect society as a whole against an illness that is extremely low risk to them.

Really? The flu is extremely low risk to children yet schools up and down the country give out flu jabs to children every year.

Chicken pox is low risk to children and a lot of countries give this as a standard injection along with all the other childhood injections.

We give children (super spreaders) these vaccines that are relatively low risk to most healthy children to protect society as a whole (as well as themselves) because there are those in society for whom contracting the disease would be fatal. It also helps to reduce the general spread, which means those who can't be vaccinated are less likely to get it.

Vaccinating children will help reduce the spread but also reduce the need for isolations from school, potential return to bubbles etc as fewer people will be able to spread it.

It's not always about one person, sometimes we have to look at the bigger picture.

The younger generation has every right to be massively disappointed in my generation (current parents) and to be furious at how they've been treated over the last two years. Their education has been massively disrupted, they've missed out on years of their childhood and now, on top of that, they're being asked to take a medication they don't need in order to protect older people??? WTAF? It is unbelievable.

It is NOT the duty of children to protect/serve those older than they and a society that expects that of them is no better than one that employs child soldiers or child labourers.

JCVI has said they don't need it. That should be the end of it. Any push to get them to take a vaccine is extraordinarily cowardly, short sighted and just plain stupid IMO.

@TheDailyCarbunkle

The younger generation has every right to be massively disappointed in my generation (current parents) and to be furious at how they've been treated over the last two years. Their education has been massively disrupted, they've missed out on years of their childhood and now, on top of that, they're being asked to take a medication they don't need in order to protect older people??? WTAF? It is unbelievable.

It is NOT the duty of children to protect/serve those older than they and a society that expects that of them is no better than one that employs child soldiers or child labourers.

JCVI has said they don't need it. That should be the end of it. Any push to get them to take a vaccine is extraordinarily cowardly, short sighted and just plain stupid IMO.

It is NOT the duty of children to protect/serve those older than they and a society that expects that of them is no better than one that employs child soldiers or child labourers

Don't be ridiculous, it's nothing like employing child labourers or soldiers. A vaccine protects both the person themselves and society as a whole. There are a lot of things we do that individually have little impact but as a whole impacts society greatly.

Why on earth do you think children should be furious with our generation for them missing out on two years of their childhood and education because of an unforeseeable disease that has killed millions across the world? I don't disagree they have been impacted, as have so so many people but it's hardly the fault.of our generation for letting this happen.

I can only assume you are one of those people who has refused to wear a mask, socially distance etc as we just "need to get on with it". If not, I am really struggling to understand your argument.

@APerfectSky
Yes really.

I am fully aware of what you’re saying. One of my younger children is immune suppressed. But I have never expected other parents to vaccinate against Chicken pox or flu to protect her.

I feel the same way about the flu vaccine for children. That it doesn’t sit right with me to vaccinate children to protect others. The difference being though that the flu vaccine IS fully approved for use in children and already has a long standing safety record.

I find it a bit patronising that you say, it’s not just about one person but ‘the greater good’. I truly believe that it is not the duty of children to take this new vaccine which has negligible health benefits (in fact has risks associated with it) for them.

As I always say on here, life isn’t black and white. It’s many shades of grey. I’m not saying my children won’t ever have a Covid vaccine. Just not right now.

I’m not sure they will need vaccinating at all at any age. Most if not all 12-15 year olds are likely to catch delta in the coming months so that will act like a vaccine and future infections will be milder so I don’t think the young will ever be at risk from hospitalisation and death (with exception of ecv children who should be vaccinated and a very very minuscule small minority who may not be ecv). By the time they become an age when their risk is higher they will likely have had covid multiple times and it will be no more than a cold, as likely happened with the existing common cold coronaviruses in the past.

However you’re probably asking about what age they would be to need vaccinating now rather than when they turn that age in the future. I’d probably say 16 to 18 when they start to mix a lot in pubs etc and put other older people at risk from passing it on.

I'm double jabbed and it really messed with me hormonally. Hot flushes stopped, heart palpitations stopped. Not really an issue for me - but DD has just started her periods and I don't want her hormones affected.

If she wants it I won't stop her, but I certainly won't be making her have it.

Because the jcvi recommended it for me not for her and the cmo says there is no health benefit for her..only an education one. we already know that teachers here are still calling for schools to shut for at least some students (“we need smaller classes, social distancing in schools”) so I think it very unlikely to save her education in any event.

If it came with a guarantee that schools will not shut again for vaccinate pupils I may rethink but I am struggling with the benefit really. Even re overall transmission figures seem to suggest it will prevent 30,000 cases over about five months, that is basically one days cases it’s not the game changer talked of on here not if you listen to the experts! (The experts who we should listen to re everything else of course just not child vaccination!)

To be clear I would vaccinate her to protect others but there not even sure it does that to any great extent that given the fact vaccinated people catch it abs pass it on so it feels really it being doing right satisfy a mob for whom this is the next big thing. I need some data to suggest some benefit and the cmo didn’t give that on Monday really.

Because whilst I am happy to trial out an emergency drug to protect others I'm not happy pushing that responsibility on my kids.

The JVCI said they didn't need it and we have followed their guidance this entire time.

Its doesn't stop them catching it or passing it on.

I still remember what happened to the children (and some adults) that had the swine flu vaccine and it took YEARS for admittance and recognition.

I can't get my head around that people think its ok to give a child an emergency licensed vaccine they dont need to protect adults that are already double jabbed.

My kids will be having the flu vaccine so they dont get sick, flu is more dangerous to children than covid.

@Explosivefarts

The age the JCVI recommended it for 16+

Pretty much this.

The risk especially for boys seems to outweigh the potential dangers of covid on an individual level. It is not fair to ask my 13 year old to possibly risk heart issues for the "good of society".

This is a political decision, not a medical one. I trust doctors more than politicians, especially Sturgeon.

How do vaccinated teenagers protect unvaccinated adults? I thought you are just as likely to catch covid if you're vaccinated or not. This is confusing.

I'm very pro vaccine, have had both shots myself and kids have had all their childhood vaccinations.

I am still feeling the effects of the AZ on my periods and cycle. My dd is 12, hasn't got her period yet and I do worry that the Pfizer will interfere with her developing hormones.

to catch and pass on covid if you're vaccinated or not.

Whilst hundreds of thousands of elderly and vulnerable people refuse to be vaccinated themselves, (as they do with the flu vaccine, I see this every year) I wouldn't be giving consent for my 12-15 year old to be jabbed, largely to protect others.
They're older teens now and have been jabbed, but they never had the flu vaccine when younger for the same reason.