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To be livid with the government

138 replies

Pissofog · 12/09/2021 13:41

They are Cowards. Dropping plans for a vaccine passport which would have kept us all safe but after some pushback from the covidiots and the useful fools who enable them in the name of “freedom”. I am so angry that once again public health is put bellow greed and the “rights” of a selfish minority to endanger themselves and others. 😡😡😡

OP posts:
riveted1 · 12/09/2021 22:40

@SonnetForSpring

Double vaxed people have same viral load as non vaxed. However, vaxed people shed the virus for a shorter amount of time. Still though vaccines don't prevent transmission. Only reduce it slightly. They also significantly reduce a person's risk of being hospitalised. I can't really see why vaccine passports would be beneficial to be honest in terms of allowing people to do things. It just creates a false sense of security.
More recent studies using population based sampling (i.e., not just relying on positive tests which will on average be people with a higher viral load) have demonstrated that vaccinated people do indeed tend to have a lower viral load than those who are unvaccinated when breakthrough infections occur.

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/

The study’s analyses of PCR test results also suggest that fully vaccinated people may be less likely than unvaccinated people to pass the virus on to others, due to having a smaller viral load on average and therefore likely shedding less virus.

Changechangychange · 12/09/2021 22:42

I suspect they have u turned because they knew it would be another expensive fuckup like track and trace, and they didn’t want any more bad press.

It’s great that vaccine take up has been high enough that it’s becoming less relevant now. I suspect they will bring in something similar if cases go up over winter.

A lot of DS’s friends have EU parents, and it seems there is not much crossover between the UK NHS app, and the various EU vaccine passport apps. People have had a lot of difficulty proving they are vaccinated when they go back to France/Germany/Austria. So maybe the government wanted to remove a few barriers to tourism.

LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus · 13/09/2021 00:02

I think that people who support vaccine passports often do so as they feel angry that some people choose not to be vaccinated, and want them punished!

Maduixa · 13/09/2021 00:06

YABU. The proposed Vaccine Passport violates the ECHR, and if it had been instituted it would have just cost the UK a fortune pointlessly defending it. If you want to protect people, lobby for a G3-style solution.

XenoBitch · 13/09/2021 00:08

@LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus

I think that people who support vaccine passports often do so as they feel angry that some people choose not to be vaccinated, and want them punished!
Judging by some of the comments, it certainly seems that way.
Kokeshi123 · 13/09/2021 00:29

Dropping plans for a vaccine passport which would have kept us all safe

I am basically agnostic on passports, but the idea that they would have "kept us all safe" is an example of the unrealistic expectations that are creating problems right now. The passports would probably have slowed the spread of the virus. They would not have magically caused it to just go away.

Stircraazy · 13/09/2021 05:59

The UK and Israel have higher numbers of Covid cases than the countries that were slower to vaccinate. So it looks like immunity wears off over time. Hence Boris saying we have to live with this. Covid will run and run passports or no.

UsedUpUsername · 13/09/2021 07:11

Judging by some of the comments, it certainly seems that way

It’s become a moral issue instead of a health issue.

They don’t care that much of the unvaxxed are healthy young people.

They don’t care that a more targeted approach to getting the unvaccinated over 50s to reconsider their stance might be more effective.

For one, we need to clearly communicate the risks of COVID to certain age groups. Too many over 50s FEEL young and healthy, but they are not. This is the problem—not a 25-year-old.

They don’t care about any of this, because it’s a moral issue to them. Your particular health status is irrelevant in this way of thinking.

It’s very simple for them. If you don’t wear a mask and don’t get vaccinated, you deserve to get COVID. Nevermind that loads who’ve diligently wore masks got COVID. Nevermind that even those who’ve been jabbed still got COVID …

TheKeatingFive · 13/09/2021 08:32

They don’t care that a more targeted approach to getting the unvaccinated over 50s to reconsider their stance might be more effective.

Exactly. Being vaccinated doesn’t make a huge difference to transmission. Vaccine passports would be enormous extra work and worrying precedent just to make people feel like somethings being done.

Vaccines do make a big difference to disease severity. Targeting at risk groups is absolutely the way to go.

HelloMissus · 13/09/2021 08:37

The don’t personally have an issue with passports. Currently sitting in Greece where I didn’t need to test - just sent a copy of proof of double vac - very easy.

But I did worry that as a policy it would be likely to discriminate against certain sections of our community. Yes those who refuse the vac may be frustrating to us, but we’ve got to work on how to reach them.

Peteycat · 13/09/2021 09:14

"08:37HelloMissus

The don’t personally have an issue with passports. Currently sitting in Greece where I didn’t need to test - just sent a copy of proof of double vac - very easy.

But I did worry that as a policy it would be likely to discriminate against certain sections of our community. Yes those who refuse the vac may be frustrating to us, but we’ve got to work on how to reach them"

But why do you feel the need to reach them? It's their personal choice, you don't need to try and persuade them or change their minds.

BillyJoe111 · 13/09/2021 09:20

@HelloMissus

The don’t personally have an issue with passports. Currently sitting in Greece where I didn’t need to test - just sent a copy of proof of double vac - very easy.

But I did worry that as a policy it would be likely to discriminate against certain sections of our community. Yes those who refuse the vac may be frustrating to us, but we’ve got to work on how to reach them.

Why would you need to change someone’s personal choice?

And what would you do to reach me, and people like me who have had on going problems since their first vaccine (I am currently under neurology for something that was caused by the first vaccine), who have no intention of having another as the first has had debilitating consequences? There are others like me out there.

Peteycat · 13/09/2021 09:25

@BillyJoe111

Sorry to hear about this. I hope you get this issue sorted soon and feel better. I agree with you, there is so much more than just getting the jab. There will be consequences for some unfortunately. However people say that they are frustrated with unvaccinated people. I just don't and never will understand them. It is no business of anyone's what vaccine others have had.

BillyJoe111 · 13/09/2021 09:53

[quote Peteycat]@BillyJoe111

Sorry to hear about this. I hope you get this issue sorted soon and feel better. I agree with you, there is so much more than just getting the jab. There will be consequences for some unfortunately. However people say that they are frustrated with unvaccinated people. I just don't and never will understand them. It is no business of anyone's what vaccine others have had.[/quote]
Thank you, I live in hope.

And yes, it’s no business of anyone else’s. I know it just comes out of fear, but what this whole thing has done to some people is insane.

I’ve lost friends who will not understand why I won’t have the second vaccine or ask to mix with another type of covid vaccine. Even when they can see the pain i’m in. They cannot understand why i’m not willing to risk my health even further (and yes they argue to the death that covid could be worse, only it wasn’t for me, I had a runny nose for two days).

Frazzled2207 · 13/09/2021 10:54

I agree with you OP but am more livid about the dropping of masks thing. Is such a bloody minor infringement asking people to wear one in sainsburys or on the train. We're not asking people to wear them 24/7.

I can understand that if cases were really low you could do away with it. But they're almost as high as they've ever been. So my CEV parents basically now feel housebound because masks are no longer enforced in shops etc. A friend with a CEV child another with a CEV husband are terrified (yes they are vaccinated but in their cases no real proof that it helps). That's no way to live.

UsedUpUsername · 13/09/2021 12:07

@Frazzled2207

I agree with you OP but am more livid about the dropping of masks thing. Is such a bloody minor infringement asking people to wear one in sainsburys or on the train. We're not asking people to wear them 24/7.

I can understand that if cases were really low you could do away with it. But they're almost as high as they've ever been. So my CEV parents basically now feel housebound because masks are no longer enforced in shops etc. A friend with a CEV child another with a CEV husband are terrified (yes they are vaccinated but in their cases no real proof that it helps). That's no way to live.

Actually it is a big deal because the only masks that show some efficacy is an N95 with no gaps. This is not what people are wearing, and a proper one is really quite uncomfortable.

Sorry to say that universal masking actually gives people a false sense of security and are largely pointless anyway.

Peteycat · 13/09/2021 12:13

@BillyJoe111

It's such a shame that you have lost friends. Hopefully in the future you can make up and put your differences aside. Covid can be bad, awful in fact. Not for everyone though. The vaccine is a personal choice and you have had first hand experience of side effects, so they have no right to challenge you. I think some people cannot fathom that as with all medications and medical procedures there are always risks. Some people will be fine I'm sure with the vaccine, but others are not. So people should stop this constant rhetoric of bashing people who choose not to have it.

Peteycat · 13/09/2021 12:14

"10:54Frazzled2207

I agree with you OP but am more livid about the dropping of masks thing. Is such a bloody minor infringement asking people to wear one in sainsburys or on the train. We're not asking people to wear them 24/7"

It may be a minor infringement for you, but everyone is different.

Cornettoninja · 13/09/2021 12:33

Actually it is a big deal because the only masks that show some efficacy is an N95 with no gaps. This is not what people are wearing, and a proper one is really quite uncomfortable

Sorry to say that universal masking actually gives people a false sense of security and are largely pointless anyway

There’s an absolute glut of studies to back up either pov at this point. Masks may not be 100% perfect or even 50% but they have some value and in the case of a pandemic any measure that provides a benefit for little/no effort is a no brainer imho.

People don’t wash their hands to the same standard as surgeons but there’s a benefit to wider society if the majority make some effort to wash their hands regularly even if not perfectly. Masks are about reducing opportunities to pass on a virus even if they don’t completely eliminate all opportunities.

I appreciate that some people find them uncomfortable and others genuinely distressing or physically impossible but the one thing we all have in common is that we are a vector for infection. We can choose to recognise that or ignore it but it remains a universal truth.

Slight tangent, but I personally feel that the threat of covid has been downgraded somewhat, but not completely, and things are comparable with pandemics we have experience of (flu’s mostly). It may not have been part of our culture previously to wear a mask because of, say, swine flu, but actually it does make sense that if we want to reduce the impact of a respiratory virus we use a barrier method along with more traditional hygiene methods.

Peteycat · 13/09/2021 12:38

The threat of covid has been downgraded by the government. Otherwise they would not have stopped mitigations etc. Why do you find that so difficult to understand?

screwcovid · 13/09/2021 13:13

Seriously worrying that people actually want vaccine passports and believe they are to keep the country safe

screwcovid · 13/09/2021 13:16

@BillyJoe111

Some people won’t be happy until we have to ask permission to go to for a shit from a local committee.

Why do you want so much control over your life?

Brilliant
Maskedstranger · 13/09/2021 13:26

yanbu, OP

Worldgonecrazy · 13/09/2021 13:39

And just like that, covid passports were back on the table.

Frankly I’m more scared about the incompetence of those running the country and the fact that there is no viable opposition than I am of covid.

psychomath · 13/09/2021 13:58

Attributed or not, it's individualist guff.

What's wrong with individualism? Genuine q., I looked up the definition and don't see anything bad about it.

Also to everyone saying we already have a system in place, we'd also need an alternative to the NHS app that's available for anyone without a smartphone. Anything that can't easily be forged would presumably take a while to set up. Not sure what they're doing about that in other countries?