Will you be angry if we end up back in lockdown?

[turnshavetabled]

/ harsh restrictions?

I feel so tired of this all - but mostly tired of feeling lied to by the government. The false promises - 'irreversible' 'final lockdown until science / the vaccines can save the day'

And Scotland are already floating more restrictions, only a few weeks after reopening. It's gutting. I wish they would just tell us what the probably already know is likely to happen over the next few months.

@Delatron

Unfortunately we can’t lockdown for long Covid *@NannyAndJohn* as much as you’d like to..

Lockdown is an emergency measure to a novel virus. Not a long term strategy to keep using multiple times. I’ll keep repeating this until it sinks in.

This ⬆️

Also Lockdown are designed to buy time in order to achieve something - it is clear it suppresses rather than eliminates Covid so is useful as a tool achieve a goal - usually vaccination

Its now a cost benefit analysis game, do the benefits of the measure/restriction outweigh the costs. And however awful Long Covid is sadly the costs of Lockdown outweigh any benefits.

Yes agree lockdowns made some sense when we were buying time for the vaccines to be developed/ delivered. There is no point to a lockdown now.

I’d like to say I wouldn’t comply with another one but realistically if schools close and shops and restaurants and gyms and attractions close then I have no choice but to have 95% of my life closed down. I will continue to see friends and family however in whatever small way and I will never forgive nor vote for again any politician that agrees to it.

I doubt there will be another one though, at least not a full one. We (the country) cannot afford it and whilst people may call for one, when lockdown ends and the cases bump right back up again people will be angry.

[quote bumbleymummy]@NannyAndJohn you mean their models? Neil Fergusson doesn’t have the best success rate with his predictions does he?

Didn’t he predict 100,000 cases a day for august?[/quote]
I expect Neil Ferguson, like me, thought fully opening up on July 19th would replace the transmission from schools being closed during the school summer holidays, and keep cases rising.

But it didn't even come close.

However, from today, we're adding school transmission back in.

With fewer mitigations.

The thing is the government and scientists don't know what's going to happen with this, so how can they give people certainty?

People (understandably) want strong and decisive leadership, but Covid is something that has completely thrown us and nobody knows quite how it's going to pan out. It's something that is more nuanced and we simply have no choice but to react to it as it happens.

Yes it will be extremely frustrating if there are more lockdowns and I really hope there aren't. But if there are, we will deal with it. I think as a country we could all do with a bit more resilience.

As much as I could, I did not comply with the previous lockdowns and I will not comply with any in the future.

I'm totally against them because in the long run they do more damage.

well wearing masks someimes might help avoid one combined with other measures

Weren't we told by Johnson & Javid to expect higher cases?

Not just Ferguson. And Nanny.

Lockdown is an emergency measure to a novel virus. Not a long term strategy to keep using multiple times. I’ll keep repeating this until it sinks in.

Well, we have had 3 lockdowns so far in March & November 2020 and Jan 2021.

However much you repeat yourself.

Not that I want another lockdown.

Given the massive damage done by the lockdowns, I think we just have to live with Covid now.

Furlough etc cost hundreds of billions.

Supply chains are still goosed and the damage could last into 2022.

Education (schools and Unis) has been disastrous, with lots of mental health problems particularly in Unis.

Businesses have closed down.

Even now, lots of people needing healthcare can't get it because of the backlogs and the NHS still isn't back up to speed.

Lockdowns have caused a lot of damage and misery - probably moreso than letting covid rip without lockdowns.

Maybe some minor restrictions to help stop the numbers getting ridiculously high, but definitely no more severe restrictions/lockdowns.

@herecomesthsun the lockdowns were to buy time until the vaccines were rolled out..

Things are somewhat different now 🙄.

@onelittlefrog

The thing is the government and scientists don't know what's going to happen with this, so how can they give people certainty?

People (understandably) want strong and decisive leadership, but Covid is something that has completely thrown us and nobody knows quite how it's going to pan out. It's something that is more nuanced and we simply have no choice but to react to it as it happens.

Yes it will be extremely frustrating if there are more lockdowns and I really hope there aren't. But if there are, we will deal with it. I think as a country we could all do with a bit more resilience.

It's easy to say "be more resilient" when your job and livelihood is at risk every time there's a lockdown.

@SpicyJalfrezi

I won’t be angry, but I do think what they actually achieve is minimal.

The damage they do is not minimal though! Everyone should be fuming.

[quote Delatron]@herecomesthsun the lockdowns were to buy time until the vaccines were rolled out..

Things are somewhat different now 🙄.[/quote]
This.
Once our population are vaccinated and boosters are in place the government will stop testing the general public.

Covid will be treated as any other illness. People will get a covid test if they present at hospital and figures for hospital admission from covid and deaths from covid will be registered. As it is for flu.

For now, huge numbers in society is how it's going to be. Two leading scientists now agree herd immunity is impossible with Delta variant, even with 90% of people with immunity as Delta causes breakthrough infections in the vaccinated and carries on being transmissible. Hospitalisations are still low due to vaccination and anyone getting covid especially after vaccination, will have high levels of natural immunity.

Eventually in the next year or so, once everyone has been infected, the threat will reduce to an inconvenience to most. It's going to be hardest for those who can't make a good immune response to the vaccine. These people have to make seriously hard decisions.
This is a new reality, one we haven't encountered in recent times.

Remmy123

@NannyAndJohn yes the cases have risen, deaths have not. Point of lockdown is not to overwhelm NHS!!! Not because of sniffles ffs“

Your comment is very insensitive.

NannyandJohn’s views are extreme, I think completely wrong, but dismissing the thankfully far fewer deaths as “sniffles” is equally wrong.

[quote Delatron]@herecomesthsun the lockdowns were to buy time until the vaccines were rolled out..

Things are somewhat different now 🙄.[/quote]
ooh let me remind you

This is what you said before:
"Lockdown is an emergency measure to a novel virus. Not a long term strategy to keep using multiple times. I’ll keep repeating this until it sinks in."

We have however used lockdowns multiple times already. The first time was as "an emergency measure to a move virus".

The subsequent times, it was more complicated. November was not just until we could all be vaccinated, was it?

The government has lockdown as a tool in its kit, a tool, admittedly, that no one wants.

If we are unlucky & the situation changes, it remains a possibility therefore. Particularly if we have an overwhelming crisis with covid & other respiratory illness in the depth of winter.

I really don't want another lockdown, which is one reason why we need as a society to avoid that crisis situation (quite apart from many people being ill and dying etc).

@herecomesthsun

I don’t need reminding what I said thank you.

Of course a lockdown is an emergency measure. Just because unfortunately we had to have 3 doesn’t change this fact. It’s still not a long term strategy.. unless you disagree and think it is?

The November lockdown was the same. They all have been kicking the can down the road until we could vaccinate the population/ ease the pressure on the NHS. The goal was never elimination.
So what would be the goal with another lockdown?

But you continue to align yourself with Nanny. Maybe read the thread and see how that will go...
Fortunately 99% on here disagree with her and you.

It’s such a worry when people talk about lockdown being ‘a tool in its kit’

No it’s not. It has a huge, devastating impact. It’s not something just to defer to when we have a tricky winter.

Many of the effects we’ll be feeling for years. Don’t diminish it to a ‘tool’

It's really out of our hands... doesn't really matter what our opinions are on the whole thing it seems.

The 3rd lockdown was clearly billed as buying time to get people vaccinated.

Most people felt the cost/benefit of that was worth it. Whether they’re right or not is another point as there’s never been any actual attempt to calculate the wide ranging costs of lockdown. But that’s by the by.

After the vaccines, lockdowns don’t achieve anything beyond kicking cans down roads, so the conversation about compliance will look very different. It’s one thing to slap down a lockdown and entirely another to get buy in. It’s also the case that lockdown is less effective and more costly every time you use it.

Lockdown 3 was one last ditched attempt with a clear rationale in rolling out something that we knew would save lives. There would be no similar carrot for a subsequent one.

It's really out of our hands

I don’t think that’s true. Compliance is necessary for lockdowns. The individual doesn’t have to give that.

@Delatron

It’s such a worry when people talk about lockdown being ‘a tool in its kit’

No it’s not. It has a huge, devastating impact. It’s not something just to defer to when we have a tricky winter.

Many of the effects we’ll be feeling for years. Don’t diminish it to a ‘tool’

I know you didn't like lockdown.

I don't want another one either.

It. Is. Still. There. For. The. Government. To. Use.

I mean, that's the truth, hope they won't.

Keeping cases down a bit, boring stuff, widespread use of masks, doing stuff outside where we can- that will make it a bit less likely that we end up in the sort of crisis, where we need a devastating measure to cope.

That's not a prediction, by the way, just an accurate observation.

Is it always such a worry for you when people speak the truth?

Well exactly @TheKeatingFive

It’s not out of our hands. They lockdown again and people can still see friends and family.
There won’t be blind compliance to a strategy that has no end goal. And that we’ve done time and time again. With a huge percentage of the population vaccinated. It’s completely different now.

That’s why another lockdown wouldn’t have an impact. Other than devastate the economy again.

[quote Delatron]@herecomesthsun

I don’t need reminding what I said thank you.

Of course a lockdown is an emergency measure. Just because unfortunately we had to have 3 doesn’t change this fact. It’s still not a long term strategy.. unless you disagree and think it is?

The November lockdown was the same. They all have been kicking the can down the road until we could vaccinate the population/ ease the pressure on the NHS. The goal was never elimination.
So what would be the goal with another lockdown?

But you continue to align yourself with Nanny. Maybe read the thread and see how that will go...
Fortunately 99% on here disagree with her and you.[/quote]
I am not saying the same thing as Nanny by the way, bit of a comprehension / reading fail there.

I do think she's entitled to her POV as much as anyone else.

@herecomesthsun

I really don’t know what your point is? I mean who likes a lockdown?
There won’t be another lockdown. At least I can come out and be confident and own my convictions.

It’s clear you want restrictions to continue. I think you may need to come round to the idea we are in to the next stage of living with this virus now. People are ditching the masks/social distancing and getting on with their lives.