I've had the vaccine but now I'm scared

[Laney39]

I have had 2 shots of pfizer vaccine. I was scared to get it but eventually did. Now I'm terrified I should have taken my chances with covid. I've read that people will eventually die from these vaccines because it's new technology that hasn't been tested in the long term. How do the spike proteins stop producing? What will happen in 5 or 10 years time or does it just wear off?
People are saying it's all just a big money making thing for pharma companies and that we'll all get sick and need more drugs.
I can't sleep, I can't stop thinking about it. Can anyone help and reassure me?

@speckledostrichegg

For now....they may have better outcomes. Great.

But that is not how ADE potentially plays out in the long-run. That is the hypothesis. As yet unproven by anyone on here or in the scientific community.

I've reported a load of other comments as false information. It's not that you're "not allowed to question vaccines" but you're not allowed to spread unsubstantiated or out of context shit that makes people who are already nervous feel more so, or makes people who already felt like they didn't understand what was going on more confused.

[quote hamstersarse]@speckledostrichegg

For now....they may have better outcomes. Great.

But that is not how ADE potentially plays out in the long-run. That is the hypothesis. As yet unproven by anyone on here or in the scientific community.[/quote]
Why on earth do you think that ADE side effects would not have emerged by now? The first waves of vaccination began over a year ago, during a pandemic. There are many new variants of coronavirus that vaccinated people are being exposed to.

And more importantly, why do you think hundreds of experts, with decades of expertise and experience in the field were happy for the roll out of the vaccines to go ahead and continue, if this is a genuine concern? Why do you think you've stumbled across something that has somehow escaped their notice? And why wasn't this a consideration listed in the JCVI rejection?

@everythingthelighttouches

I wish Mumsnet would act as a responsible social media platform and take down antivax nonsense.

Especially given one of the high risk groups at the moment is pregnant women who are looking to mumsnet for advice.

It doesn’t sit comfortably with me at all.

I agree. This is not the first faux wide-eyed "people are saying x about vaccinations/I'm worried about y because of vaccinations" thread that has been started and it won't be the last.

I am double jabbed and did worry about taking vaccine as I had AZ in the same week that they stopped it for under 40's. I am 45.

Covid vaccine has been added to the UK vaccine damage scheme so should I get long term disability from vaccine I can go and claim compensation.

If I get long term sick because of Covid because I chose not to take a vaccine I can't.

I did just read that today the US Food and Drug Administration has fully approved Pfizer/BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine for people aged 16 and older, so it's no longer an experimental vaccine like antivaxxers keep saying. @pfizerfizzer I'm sorry if I have heightend your anxiety with this thread and hope that you are able to get your jab as planned.

@Laney39 you haven't, please don't worry. In fact this thread has made me determined to get it on Wednesday (I'd get it sooner but I know I have to get Pfizer or fret for 4 weeks )

Just hope I don't get covid before I'm fully vaccinated. I guess the risk is less now others have been vaccinated too.

Good news about the FDA

@Laney39

I did just read that today the US Food and Drug Administration has fully approved Pfizer/BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine for people aged 16 and older, so it's no longer an experimental vaccine like antivaxxers keep saying. *@pfizerfizzer* I'm sorry if I have heightend your anxiety with this thread and hope that you are able to get your jab as planned.

@Laney39 it is fair enough if you want to ask questions, but it's good to try and get a range of answers from credible experts.

Just in case no one answered the original post..

How do the spike proteins stop producing?
mRNA doesn't last long in the body at all - we've got decades of molecular biology evidence showing this, it will be degraded within a couple of days. Without this, your bodies cells have no instructions and how can no longer make the spike protein.

What will happen in 5 or 10 years time or does it just wear off?
mRNA is gone within a couple of days, spike proteins can last a maximum of a couple of weeks depending on how quickly the immune system degrades them. This is basis behind which experts say there isn't a plausible mechanism for side effects that emerge after a long time period. What is left behind is simply T-memory and B-memory cells, who now know how to fight coronavirus, in the same way it would be for any other vaccine.

@speckledostrichegg thank you that's a really clear answer. I think I may have built myself up into a frenzy this morning when I originally posted but clear information like this really helps

What will happen in 5 or 10 years time or does it just wear off?**

Of course it 'wears off' .. that's the bloody problem!! I wish it did last 5 to 10 years!

Sorry if that's already been said. Haven't rtft.

The yellow card system is not publicised. Most people don’t even know it exists

@hamstersarse have you had the vaccine as you are given a leaflet which includes reference to the scheme.

While we're flinging numbers about, perhaps it would be an idea to bear in mind that if we somehow managed to gather the population of the UK and have someone wave a hand over each person's arm, without touching, a month later, statistically, 30-40,000 of those people would be dead.

People are going to die after having the vaccine, same as they die after having a cup of tea. Of course it should be investigated whether or not some, any or all of those deaths are attributable to the vaccine, but I seriously doubt whether the sort of debate on this thread is shining much light on the matter.

Let's ignore the fact that nervous people catch onto expressions like 'I've read that...', 'could be ... ', 'up to...', 'as much as...' and use them to discourage them from getting the vaccine.

@amicissimma that's an alarming fact

It's difficult (well, for someone like me it is) as the yellow card data is very confusing for things like anaphylaxis (which I'm worried about and just read a thread here about the numbers) there doesn't seem to be any official figures but the info leaflets state that Pfizer has a higher rate than would be expected from vaccination but AstraZeneca doesn't - but the yellow card reports of anaphylaxis seems to suggest that AstraZeneca is higher

It's things like this that make it hard to ease through all the facts and figures but I REALLY appreciate the calm exploration of it here

@Smartiepants79

Stop reading random shit on the internet. You’ll be less scared.

^^This. If you are prone to anxiety why feed it?

[quote pfizerfizzer]@amicissimma that's an alarming fact

It's difficult (well, for someone like me it is) as the yellow card data is very confusing for things like anaphylaxis (which I'm worried about and just read a thread here about the numbers) there doesn't seem to be any official figures but the info leaflets state that Pfizer has a higher rate than would be expected from vaccination but AstraZeneca doesn't - but the yellow card reports of anaphylaxis seems to suggest that AstraZeneca is higher

It's things like this that make it hard to ease through all the facts and figures but I REALLY appreciate the calm exploration of it here [/quote]
This is why you need to chat it through with someone who knows what they're talking about and can explain the best option for you at the vaccine centre.

anaphylaxis to either vaccine tends to be only associated with specific allergies, they'll be able advise you if you're at risk.

Oh I've no doubt (based on what I've read so far) that I wouldn't be classed as high risk. I've never had an anaphylactic reaction to anything and have the common garden allergies lots of people have.

I just have anxiety and reading around to get facts and figures helps me get a sense of my own levels of risk so I can make a decision with less panic - like I've been able to do now to get the jab.

I know how frustrating this is to people who don't have anxiety. I do usually try to keep it under control but this is a big one for me

"@amicissimma that's an alarming fact"

Approx 1200-1400 people die every day on average in the UK. That's been going on all your life and long before either Covid or vaccines came along. Were you alarmed by that before 2020? It seems very unlikely that none of them will have had a vaccine in the previous month (or week, year, whatever), but it doesn't mean that there's a link between any given death and the vaccine.

@amicissimma I know, I've managed to get a slight grip on myself and I'm sorry my anxiety makes me come across as unthinking and irrational (I'm generally not).

I think I just need to get it done and remind myself that any thoughts of allergic reactions are in my head. No reason why it would particularly affect me, many many people have allergies and seem to have been fine.

@Urghhhhh

"Surely if that was a thing we'd see severe Covid cases in jabbed people. But the evidence shows quite the opposite, much milder cases."

++++++

You raise an interesting point and given the strong feelings many people have on this post I thought I would take a cool headed look at the statistics and compare August 2020 and August 2021 figures - (both up to the 24th August as we have not ended Aug 21 yet)

Source NHS

August 2020
Percent of people with 1st vaccine: 0
Percent of people with 2nd vaccine: 0
Total number of Covid deaths: 167
Of which :
Over 80: 90 (54%)
Over 60: 148 (88%)

August 2021
Percent of people with 1st vaccine: 87%
Percent of people with 2nd vaccine: 75%
Total number of Covid deaths: 1,418
Of which :
Over 80: 575 (41%)
Over 60: 1,171 (82%)

So three observations from this
By severe cases I have chosen death although a similar analysis could be done on hospitalisation but that is less accurate as it depends on subjective factors like hospital capacity or people's willingness to go to hospital- whereas death is not subjective.
Despite the vaccination program deaths are 7 times higher this August compared to last August. Whereas one would expect to see the exact opposite/ this does question the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Deaths in August 2020 were slightly more concentrated in the over 60s and over 80s compared to August 2021. There are a number of explanations including those in the age group who were most at risk of death from Covid have already died last year.

But as I said earlier I appreciate that different people have different views on the vaccine, but these are simply the cold statistics which hopefully people can better form their own opinions on.

[quote 1dayatatime]@Urghhhhh

"Surely if that was a thing we'd see severe Covid cases in jabbed people. But the evidence shows quite the opposite, much milder cases."

++++++

You raise an interesting point and given the strong feelings many people have on this post I thought I would take a cool headed look at the statistics and compare August 2020 and August 2021 figures - (both up to the 24th August as we have not ended Aug 21 yet)

Source NHS

August 2020
Percent of people with 1st vaccine: 0
Percent of people with 2nd vaccine: 0
Total number of Covid deaths: 167
Of which :
Over 80: 90 (54%)
Over 60: 148 (88%)

August 2021
Percent of people with 1st vaccine: 87%
Percent of people with 2nd vaccine: 75%
Total number of Covid deaths: 1,418
Of which :
Over 80: 575 (41%)
Over 60: 1,171 (82%)

So three observations from this
By severe cases I have chosen death although a similar analysis could be done on hospitalisation but that is less accurate as it depends on subjective factors like hospital capacity or people's willingness to go to hospital- whereas death is not subjective.
Despite the vaccination program deaths are 7 times higher this August compared to last August. Whereas one would expect to see the exact opposite/ this does question the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Deaths in August 2020 were slightly more concentrated in the over 60s and over 80s compared to August 2021. There are a number of explanations including those in the age group who were most at risk of death from Covid have already died last year.

But as I said earlier I appreciate that different people have different views on the vaccine, but these are simply the cold statistics which hopefully people can better form their own opinions on.

[/quote]
This isn't how you analyse epidemiological data though?

For a start, you've picked two months out of thin air to compare raw percentages. There's so many factors (i.e., confounders) that could explain differences besides vaccine efficacy - not least the drastically different amount of cases we were having in August last year and August this year.

There are numerous, replicated studies that demonstrate vaccines reduce severe illness and death.

@leafyygreens

I am by no means an epidemiological data expert , but I can analyse data- I have simply compared August 2020 to August 2021 deaths.

The only reason I chose August is because that is the current month. But if it helps:
July 2020 Covid deaths: 493
July 2021 Covid deaths: 1,120

There may well have been studies that "prove" the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing deaths but this simply doesn't match with the raw data.

But my main point remains is that with 75% of the population double vaccinated you would expect the death rate to be lower than when 0% of the population was vaccinated. Whereas in fact the opposite has occurred- this is the data from NHS.

I am happy to hear a convincing explanation backed by data as to why this has happened (other than the effectiveness of the vaccine) as it does genuinely puzzle me.

[quote 1dayatatime]@leafyygreens

I am by no means an epidemiological data expert , but I can analyse data- I have simply compared August 2020 to August 2021 deaths.

The only reason I chose August is because that is the current month. But if it helps:
July 2020 Covid deaths: 493
July 2021 Covid deaths: 1,120

There may well have been studies that "prove" the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing deaths but this simply doesn't match with the raw data.

But my main point remains is that with 75% of the population double vaccinated you would expect the death rate to be lower than when 0% of the population was vaccinated. Whereas in fact the opposite has occurred- this is the data from NHS.

I am happy to hear a convincing explanation backed by data as to why this has happened (other than the effectiveness of the vaccine) as it does genuinely puzzle me.[/quote]
As I have said, you aren't analysing data, you're just comparing raw percentages without taking any other factors into account.

People aren't going to be dying of COVID if no-one is catching it, which is what happens when cases are very low.

There may well have been studies that "prove" the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing deaths but this simply doesn't match with the raw data.

Again, you are misunderstanding how epidemiological analyses are conducted. Comparing raw percentages is not appropriate in this situation, confounders of your exposure-outcome relationship must be controlled for.

@leafyygreens

"
People aren't going to be dying of COVID if no-one is catching it, which is what happens when cases are very low."

True but equally the number of cases is heavily influenced by ease of access to tests and the number of tests being done. So if loads of people are tested then there will be a lot of positive cases. Whereas if few tests are done then there will be fewer positive tests. Access to tests and number of tests were higher in August 21 than in August 2020. Covid deaths stats are less ambiguous.

Looking at the raw test data would show that in August 2020 there were around a 1000 positive tests per day at a time when 0% of the population was vaccinated. Whereas in August 2021 there were on average 30,000 cases per day.

This does prove your point that more cases results in more deaths. But my point is that if the vaccine was also effective at reducing your chance of catching Covid (as well as death from Covid) you would expect more cases in August 2020 than August 2021. Whereas the opposite has occurred which raise a second question how effective is the vaccine at stopping people catching Covid?

Regarding "confounders" - no August or July or month in one year is the same as an August or July in the previous year. Yes we had Euro2020 football this year but last year we had eat out to help out etc. I agree this will cause some variation BUT to have the death rate in August 2021 seven times higher than August 2020 despite 75% vaccination this year is somewhat odd.

This does prove your point that more cases results in more deaths. But my point is that if the vaccine was also effective at reducing your chance of catching Covid (as well as death from Covid) you would expect more cases in August 2020 than August 2021. Whereas the opposite has occurred which raise a second question how effective is the vaccine at stopping people catching Covid?

Regarding "confounders" - no August or July or month in one year is the same as an August or July in the previous year. Yes we had Euro2020 football this year but last year we had eat out to help out etc. I agree this will cause some variation BUT to have the death rate in August 2021 seven times higher than August 2020 despite 75% vaccination this year is somewhat odd.

This really isn't going anywhere but I repeat - there were only approx 900 new per day in the time period you're comparing to, whereas this summer we've got up to 60,000. It is not comparable. I have no idea why you've put "confounders" in quotation mark as if this is some bizzare concept when it is very basic epidemiology.

Breakthrough infections do and will occur.