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Israel's worrying 4th wave

166 replies

onlychildhamster · 18/08/2021 12:04

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=amp.ft.com/content/572112fd-a713-4b0f-99be-bfcbf8506205&ved=2ahUKEwihopWKtbryAhVRY8AKHemqBsEQFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3C7F7KYpPqYjilC1ak6OS4&ampcf=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=amp.ft.com/content/572112fd-a713-4b0f-99be-bfcbf8506205&ved=2ahUKEwihopWKtbryAhVRY8AKHemqBsEQFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3C7F7KYpPqYjilC1ak6OS4&ampcf=1

From the FT:

Since late last year, Israel has been a laboratory for the world. After winning early access to BioNTech/Pfizer jab supplies in exchange for sharing data on its effects, Israel was the first country to celebrate fully reopening its entire economy after double-jabbing 70 per cent of its population by early April. Now, one of the world’s most-vaccinated nations is among the first to experience an alarming fourth wave of infections — and hospitalisations — and is rushing to give booster shots. The rest of the world should take notice.

New infections in Israel have surged to the highest in six months, with signs that protection against severe disease has fallen significantly for elderly people vaccinated early this year. The data has caveats, but the trend is clear: six to eight months after second jabs, immunity starts to wane. Most recently, the health ministry found that for over-65s who received a second shot in January, protection against severe illness from the now-dominant Delta variant had fallen as low as 55 per cent, though some analysts question this

Since late last year, Israel has been a laboratory for the world. After winning early access to BioNTech/Pfizer jab supplies in exchange for sharing data on its effects, Israel was the first country to celebrate fully reopening its entire economy after double-jabbing 70 per cent of its population by early April. Now, one of the world’s most-vaccinated nations is among the first to experience an alarming fourth wave of infections — and hospitalisations — and is rushing to give booster shots. The rest of the world should take notice.

New infections in Israel have surged to the highest in six months, with signs that protection against severe disease has fallen significantly for elderly people vaccinated early this year. The data has caveats, but the trend is clear: six to eight months after second jabs, immunity starts to wane. Most recently, the health ministry found that for over-65s who received a second shot in January, protection against severe illness from the now-dominant Delta variant had fallen as low as 55 per cent, though some analysts question this figure.

The government also estimated recently that the vaccine’s effectiveness in stopping new infections among everyone who received second jabs in January had dropped sharply. It remained 82 per cent effective, however, in preventing severe illness, and 86 per cent effective in stopping hospitalisations.

While the unjabbed remain five to six times as likely to end up seriously ill, 90 per cent of Israel’s new infections are among relatively highly-vaccinated over-50s. Health officials have warned that, at current rates, at least 5,000 people would need hospital beds by early September, half with severe medical needs — twice as many as Israel is equipped to handle. Israel has started offering over-60s, and soon over-50s, a third shot. If this proves ineffective, the government has warned that a new lockdown may be unavoidable.

Israel’s case may reflect a particular combination of factors, and may not be exactly replicated elsewhere. It used almost exclusively Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine, with three-week intervals between jabs. Immunity from the Oxford/AstraZeneca or Moderna jabs may prove longer-lasting. Several countries, like the UK, extended the gap between doses to 12 weeks — so second jabs were received later. Not all followed a strict policy of inoculating the eldest first.

But Israel’s experience still has implications. Until more is known about the durability of protection from different jabs, it suggests even highly-vaccinated countries should retain some preventive measures, such as mask-wearing in public places.

OP posts:
Refreshpage · 18/08/2021 19:50

@NannyAndJohn

Yep, anyone with half a brain knew this was coming.

And we'll be going in to it with over 30000 cases a day.

Do you know anyone with half a brain @NannyAndJohn

It appears that you read an article then catastrophise. Read the bit about how effective it still is at prevention of hospitalisation and prevention of severe effects and death. You always look for the negative bits and avoid any positive sections why is that?

GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 18/08/2021 20:09

[quote onlychildhamster]@Sparklingbrook we might experience a spike in hospital admissions in autumn/winter similar to what Israel is experiencing now, maybe leading to lockdown/further restrictions.

I have family in Israel and they tell me it doesn't look good :([/quote]
Israel, like just about every country, is on its own distinct trajectory. They administered vaccines differently to us, they are only just experiencing Delta. There is absolutely no evidence that we will follow the same path.

Bobholll · 18/08/2021 20:15

Yet again everyone seems to be completely missing the point that the vaccine is still massively working to prevent serious illness & death. Which is the main purpose of the vaccine. Israel are simply seeing that the vaccines don’t work so well against Delta in terms of stopping transmission. Which we already know in the U.K.

RobinPenguins · 18/08/2021 20:18

Another factor that we’ll have to wait and see how it plays out here is that Israel uses the 3-4 week spacing of doses, where it now looks that 8+ is better.

80+% efficacy against severe disease, even in the oldest age groups, even with waning immunity? Doesn’t sound like the end of the world to me.

Imnothereforthedrama · 18/08/2021 21:07

[quote Getyourarseofffthequattro]@NannyAndJohn bit of a wild assumption there![/quote]
Nannyandjohn only pops up on these threads with these ott comments don’t bother engaging.

fantastaballs · 18/08/2021 21:16

Like another poster said, I can't control this and so won't be worrying about it until it happens. I'm double jammed and seriously immuno suppressed. Up to now avoided corona totally. I plan to carry on exactly as I have been..... seeing my very close small circle of friends and family and shopping online as much as possible. My kids will go to school college as long as they are open. I will continue to have lots of food on stock but I always have 1-2 months of food and bulk buy my cleaning stuff and loo rolls.

I hope the schools don't close again but if they do I'll be forming a child care bubble with my daughters best friend so they can study together while her parents work etc. I care for my nephew so will be helping them. This virus could be around for a long time yet, how many variants are wet up to now? We just have to get on with it and do the best we can.

myheartskippedabeat · 18/08/2021 21:42

If your child wants a particular toy for Christmas (adverts already on tv 🤦🏻‍♀️) get it ordered we've ordered some stuff today

WouldBeGood · 18/08/2021 21:44

Nice scaremongering @onlychildhamster

Maybe be aware if this before you post. This pish worries people needlessly

lannistunut · 18/08/2021 21:57

It is getting very tedious to see an ad hominem attack instead of a reasoned argument about the subject of the thread EVERY time anything that could mean this isn’t all over is posted.

I agree with this, I find the very personal comments really disgusting, there are two or three posters who are bullied for having a different point of view.

Sparklingbrook · 18/08/2021 22:05

@lannistunut

It is getting very tedious to see an ad hominem attack instead of a reasoned argument about the subject of the thread EVERY time anything that could mean this isn’t all over is posted.

I agree with this, I find the very personal comments really disgusting, there are two or three posters who are bullied for having a different point of view.

I disagree. The few I know of bang on and on like broken records with spurious facts. Followed by back pedalling often. One even looked up an old thread to go back and ask someone if they were still feeling smug.Confused I wouldn’t call that merely having a different point of view. That’s a whole new level of Hmm
Ugzbugz · 18/08/2021 22:10

This is why the booster programme is starting as the older people's is wearing off whilst younger people's is kicking in.

Its mutating and spreading even with double protection. I know 10 people with it now but obviously the 3 kids are unvaccinated.

Everything is open, schools soon, and haven't NZ had some random case after 100 plus days? Where did that come from?

lannistunut · 18/08/2021 22:13

@Sparklingbrook

If you read back through this thread the personal attacks are in one direction. It has got to an unacceptable level IMO.

Sparklingbrook · 18/08/2021 22:25

[quote lannistunut]@Sparklingbrook

If you read back through this thread the personal attacks are in one direction. It has got to an unacceptable level IMO.[/quote]
Personal attacks should be reported…

lannistunut · 18/08/2021 22:29

@Sparklingbrook personal attacks can be reported but do not have to be reported.

Sparklingbrook · 18/08/2021 22:30

[quote lannistunut]@Sparklingbrook personal attacks can be reported but do not have to be reported.[/quote]
If you feel they have reached an 'unacceptable level' you would report them, surely?

WouldBeGood · 18/08/2021 22:45

Boosters to non vulnerable people here and vaccinations for children are immoral when vulnerable people in poor countries have no access to vaccines.

WouldBeGood · 18/08/2021 22:45

Time to stop the sharp elbows, and think about other people

IcedPurple · 18/08/2021 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

lannistunut · 18/08/2021 22:58

@WouldBeGood

Time to stop the sharp elbows, and think about other people
Politically that would be very hard for this government I think, even if vaccines aborad are more rational they will not be as popular.

But there are enough for both tbh.

Sparklingbrook · 18/08/2021 23:02

But if you make a point of saying a poster has been 'bullied' and that you find this 'really disgusting', surely a better use of your time and effort would be to simply use the Report function?

Exactly, if I thought something had reach 'unacceptable' levels I'd involve MNHQ so they could take a look.

Chamonixshoopshoop · 18/08/2021 23:06

They didn’t leave king enough between the doses, by the time we all got ours we’d learnt this lesson.

lannistunut · 18/08/2021 23:10

If I want to report I will report, If I want to post I will post.

IcedPurple · 18/08/2021 23:12

@lannistunut

If I want to report I will report, If I want to post I will post.
So you want to see what you consider the 'really disgusting' 'bulllying' of a poster to continue?

Fine.

WouldBeGood · 18/08/2021 23:14

People just need to get a grip

lannistunut · 18/08/2021 23:15

Yes, that is right @IcedPurple, very good Smile