Why is not having the vaccine selfish

[chorizoTapas]

If not getting the vaccine only means you're putting yourself at risk why is it considered selfish and why are some people choosing to not be around their own family members who are unvaccinated? As most people have now had the vaccine hopefully the hospitals won't become overwhelmed... even with the few people that won't have the jab.

I am double jabbed but my brother is refusing to have his. Is he selfish? And if so why?

@Parky04 'untested?' It's been deployed all around the world in the billions. It's one of the most documented, observed vaccines ever with an enormous data pool including people from all different demographics.

Also this is a medication that works with the immune system. Bad outcomes in the immune system tend to present themselves quickly, not 20 years down the track.

This is an incredibly effective and safe vaccine, and we are beyond fortunate to have access to it.

You can argue semantics till the cows come home, but the truth remains that the vaccine reduces transmission. Therefore there is a benefit to the vaccinated person and the wider population including those unable to get vaccinated.

Making the choice not to get vaccinated means not only is that individual more likely to get infected, but are also more likely to pass the infection on.

MaxNormal hits the nail on the head.

Not having the vaccine is not selfish in the slightest. It's a personal, medical decision.

I refuse to tell anyone if I have or haven't had it.

This is actually worse. You are not giving someone the information they need to decide on their own risk. It's rather like refusing to tell a lover whether you have AIDS or not. You've assessed your risk, other people have the right to do the same.

Oh and to answer the OP.

It's deeply selfish not to get the vaccine.

And deeply stupid to think one knows better than people who devote their lives to science and medicine.

I don't care if that offends people, I'm over it.

It is selfish (assuming no medics reason why you can’t have it). A friends relative (ant vax) has just tested positive, after a family event. Knock in consequence is that her family now cannot travel to visit he husbands elderly parent who they have not see in over a year, her daughter is unable to go and collect her gcse results, and that is aside from whether or not they end up testing positive. You could say that my friend should not have attended the family event if the unvaccinated person was going to be there, but that in itself is already affecting what they do, based solely on the anti vaxxer’s position. So yes, I do think it’s selfish as it affects the lives of people around you.

Blimey. Lots of typos there!

No it is definitely not selfish.
Some people actually trust and have faith in their own immune system.
The vulnerable obviously need it.
There are two factors at work here, the fearful and the fearless, and in my opinion the fearful team are by far the worst for trying to shame people who don't think the same as them.

@Steakandcheeseplease

I've had both but hell will freeze over before my kids have it. I had it because I work with pregnant women and a lot of them still have had their vaccination yet

I think people forget though that the vaccine wasn't mandatory and that people have every right to decline it. But language is used by those people who can't cope with other people not doing what they are doing so they call people 'vaccine refusers' 'selfish' when in fact they have just declined to have something that was offered to them.

@magsbagsfags it is a personal choice. Its got nothing to do with you or anyone else.

You can still transmit the virus despite being jabbed. You can still die of the virus despite being doubly jabbed. This is a very personal choice that people still have the right to weigh up.

MN is an odd place. In RL I'd say its a 50/50 split with my friends who have had it and I literately don't know any teenagers that have had it either. I couldn't give a shit what anyone else does because its none of my business.

Why such aggresive language about your children having the jab. There's no compulsion for anyone to have it, there's no drama if your children decide they don't want it. i find it strange that you have to use such a strident phrase.

There is an argument that it is selfish but to be honest I tend to think the one area where selfishness is wholly justified is your own health.

I mean, I am not being selfish by holding onto my two kidneys, despite only needing one.

Because my daughter, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, will very likely die if she catches covid.
Unvaccinated people have a higher chance of passing it to her than vaccinated people.
That's why it's selfish.

I think the argument is that people who are not vaccinated benefit from those who have been vaccinated who are helping to reduce community transmission of the virus and increase levels of community/herd immunity. People who are choosing not to be vaccinated can only do so because other people are choosing to be vaccinated. Being vaccinated has a risk attached to it of course. Take a 20-year old who is very unlikely to die from COVID but selects to be vaccinated. Having the vaccine comes with a risk of dying (perhaps more so than dying of the virus) but it might help prevent the person's parents/grandparents getting the virus, becoming ill and dying. This decision (whether knowingly or not) benefits the community rather than the individual. If you select not to be vaccinated you benefit from lower levels of transmission and higher herd immunity without taking the risk yourself. For someone my age I benefit myself from lower likelihood of serious disease but there's a community benefit too.

@Moonface123

So to be clear, you'll be refusing a respirator and medical treatment if you're unwell, because you'll trust and have faith in your own immune system?

Or will you be relying on the public health system as a safety net if your 'trust and faith' plan falls through, even though you haven't done this one small thing you could have done to support public health and protect other people?

@jaxhog
It's rather like refusing to tell a lover whether you have AIDS or not. You've assessed your risk, other people have the right to do the same.'

Omg. It's rather not like that scenario at all, you sound nuts.

@caughtinanet well my children are officially too young to decide if they want to take it or not. Im sorry if you think 'hell will freeze over" is an aggressive phrase. Honestly there is much worse on MN

But no my kids wont be having a vaccine thats only been licensed in an emergency. I still remember what happened to some of the kids that the swine flu vaccination ten years ago. They have only just been paid compensation by the way..

@Moonface123

No it is definitely not selfish. Some people actually trust and have faith in their own immune system. The vulnerable obviously need it. There are two factors at work here, the fearful and the fearless, and in my opinion the fearful team are by far the worst for trying to shame people who don't think the same as them.

Surely you can swing that the other way... fearless being the ones who get the vaccine and the fearful who are too afraid to get it because they think it's unknown' what they're putting into their bodies

@lavenderandwisteria

Did you really just compare receiving a vaccine to donating a kidney?

It's hard to tell in writing, but were you being sarcastic?

You realise how dramatically different those two acts are, right?

@Moonface123

No it is definitely not selfish. Some people actually trust and have faith in their own immune system. The vulnerable obviously need it. There are two factors at work here, the fearful and the fearless, and in my opinion the fearful team are by far the worst for trying to shame people who don't think the same as them.

I've seen this posted on facebook but not understood it @Moonface123 How do you work out or know that you can trust your immume system?

Is there some marker that you have that the majority of people don't? It seems that those who know they will never catch covid should be telling everyone else how to check their own situation, it would surely be massively helpful to society overall to know who those people are.

@urghicba

Not having the vaccine is not selfish in the slightest. It's a personal, medical decision.

I refuse to tell anyone if I have or haven't had it.

You sound fun.

Is this supposed to make people feel bad? Most of the decisions we make are selfish. So what?
Agreed. But you don't get to not have the vaccine and claim you're not being selfish. It doesn't work like that.

Risk of transmission to others.

Pressures on health services and health and social care workers from providing care to mainly unvaccinated adults who’ve become v ill.

Impact on health and social care services for all other conditions.

Impact on other public services, eg education, and sectors of the economy. (UK and beyond)

Is it not also selfish to try and force someone to get a medical procedure against their own will? I’m vaccinated and I don’t care if other people are or not. It’s up to them. I’ve done all I can to protect myself but I’m not selfish enough to force other people to do something they aren’t comfortable with

@DifferentHair I wasn’t being sarcastic, apologies if it came over that way.

They are definitely different acts but I suppose what I’m trying to say is that medical treatment is the one area where I think selfishness is justified. You shouldn’t make decisions for someone else’s benefit.

I’ve had the vaccine. I was reluctant, to be honest, mainly as I want to conceive again in the near future and there are a lot of reports about changes to women’s cycles … but I did and I was lucky, no changes to mine.

If I had a history of bad reactions to vaccines, or perhaps more tellingly, if I was asked to have ds vaccinated, I wouldn’t. Because he should only have a vaccine that will be of benefit to him, not a vaccination that may benefit somebody else. That was where the kidney comparison came in.

I don’t believe that it is selfish to weigh things up and to say in essence that this illness is likely to be symptomless or very mild so I’ll take that … but the vaccine has these known side effects.

This is where pro and anti vax are problematic. I’m neither. I have the vaccines I think will be of benefit to me and I will do the same for ds and any other children I have.

The more the virus travels the more likely we are to get new variants and ,the more variants we get , the more likely it is that one will be a vaccine dodger. This doesn't just affect us. It potentially affects the whole world. It is incredibly selfish ( in my opinion ) not to get the vaccine for trivial , ill thought out reasons.

@Jaxhog

Not having the vaccine is not selfish in the slightest. It's a personal, medical decision.

I refuse to tell anyone if I have or haven't had it.

This is actually worse. You are not giving someone the information they need to decide on their own risk. It's rather like refusing to tell a lover whether you have AIDS or not. You've assessed your risk, other people have the right to do the same.

WTF get a grip.

THIS is how insane people have become