Why is not having the vaccine selfish

[chorizoTapas]

If not getting the vaccine only means you're putting yourself at risk why is it considered selfish and why are some people choosing to not be around their own family members who are unvaccinated? As most people have now had the vaccine hopefully the hospitals won't become overwhelmed... even with the few people that won't have the jab.

I am double jabbed but my brother is refusing to have his. Is he selfish? And if so why?

@changingstages

I do think it's selfish not to have the vaccine. I think it's pretty black and white. But i also think that if you're selfish enough not to have the vaccine then you're not going to care if people think you're selfish, so I don't really waste any energy on it. I've had the vaccine. I can't really do any more than that (other than calling out any obvious misinformation).

Exactly this.

@Tealightsandd
Of course, take no accountability.
The government doesn’t force you to eat McDonald’s every day and to not bother to go for a Walk!
Your life is your life, take accountability for it. It’s not for the government to be sorting it out.
Thank you parents if you want to blame someone.

@MareofBeasttown
I expect you are donating every last spare penny to those less fortunate than you as there is a lot of poverty in your country of origin that you have mentioned in previous posts.

@QueenofKattegat well explaining science, societal responsibility and general humanity doesn't seem to work with some people so..

@SoOvethis

I rarely eat McDonalds, and I walk everyday. It's my favourite form of exercise. I enjoy dancing too.

Why didn't we give a shit about protecting everyone before this, it's because most don't really care, they Chuck words like selfish about, but in reality they only care about thisrselves and there family.

Some people actually trust and have faith in their own immune system.

Some people believe that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. Believing something for which you have no scientific grounds is just blind faith, nothing wrong with that but don’t make out it is in some way superior

You have an increased risk of passing on the virus to others if you're not vaccinated.

This.

You're also relying on everyone else having made a different decision to reduce your own risk level. So everyone else takes a risk and you're factoring that in for your own benefit without doing anything in return. Selfish.

@GlencoraP round of applause

[quote SoOvethis]@MareofBeasttown
I expect you are donating every last spare penny to those less fortunate than you as there is a lot of poverty in your country of origin that you have mentioned in previous posts.[/quote]
Didnt realise I was being stalked! I do donate a fair bit as it happens. But what a weak argument: I won't get vaccinated in the UK because pro-vaxxers aren't helping poor people in India. Travelling to India shortly. Would be good to not infect anyone there.

@GlencoraP

Some people actually trust and have faith in their own immune system.

Some people believe that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. Believing something for which you have no scientific grounds is just blind faith, nothing wrong with that but don’t make out it is in some way superior

So you think the fact that we have an immune system is 'blind faith'? I think you need to brush up on many decades of medical history.

@Tealightsandd with respect, I don't think many smokers do so to add more to the public purse etc.
They do it because they're addicted, and/or enjoy it. Whether or not that's selfish I can't say, as I've never been a smoker, and have been told the addiction is overwhelming, but I've never experienced it. But I definitely don't think it could be argued that it's unselfish, as that's not the motivation. Of course smoking in front of others indoors is another matter, but now illegal thankfully.
Funnily enough, smoking is one of the things I'm now less judgemental of. I've always been very anti-smoking (partly because the tobacco industry is so exploitative) and used to judge smokers a bit. But, these last few months have been so instructive to me honestly, that now I just think 'oh well, hope they give up for their own sake, but who am I to judge?' kind of thoughts. The vaccine shaming has humbled me greatly. I'm ashamed to confess I used to be a little self-righteous about some things

@Tealightsandd
I am glad to hear that!
My point is though that it isn’t there government forcing people to eat like that! It’s the parents responsibility to teach their kids what healthy eating is! If they choose not to, they either lack intelligence or literally just do not care!
You don’t need many brain cells to know that it’s better to eat an apple as a snack instead of a pack of wotsits!

16:59NearlyAlwaysInsane

I've seen a vlog by one of those people who had great faith in his immune system and said he'd rather get the antibodies by getting Covid then a vaccination. He influenced lots of people, including his wife who is diabetic. She believed his theories because he went to Oxford. She was in hospital for a week and he has sadly passed away from Covid.

It isn’t. People just use it to insult people who made a different decision than they did.

I'm cautious about staying with unvaccinated friends. One is over 50, male overweight. He might be happy to take the risk of me or my family passing it on to him, but not sure I could live with myself if I gave him covid and he got ill or worse. So, its my own selfish reason not to stay with him, not him being selfish.

@MareofBeasttown
Oh yes I am stalking you. I mean really….you happened to make a lot of comments on a thread I started so I obv recognised your name and happened to read a thread where you mentioned you were from India…hardly stalking…
You should instead be flattered that I have taken note of what you have to say!

And no it’s not a weak argument. It’s just about not being selfish. We are all selfish in the end! We do what’s best for us and our loved ones. There a multitude of ways of being a selfish person and not having a vaccine doesn’t seem to be the pure definition of it from what I have read.
Btw Most people I know who have had the vaccine have explicitly stated they had it because of travel and fear of missing out! So they did it purely for selfish reasons…

I am deeply flattered.🙄😂

@Againstmachine
Agree.
I have a child who has a disease that means if he caught a stomach bug he could easily end up in hospital with a very serious and life threatening infection.
Doesn’t stop many parents being selfish and sending their kids into school even if they have vomited because it’s not convenient keeping their kids home for 48 hours post symptoms. But who cares about kids like him as it’s so rare.

Curious to know if those people who think it is not selfish, think the vaccines are going to contribute to a much reduced burden on the NHS?

@WanderingFruitWonderer

I respect where you're coming from. It's a difficult dilemma.

The Canadian vaccine sounds interesting. It would be great if it worked and could be made available!

I'd hate to think someone in your position feels anxious about your decision. You have a genuine moral dilemma. If it helps, remember that only a minority of people are in your position (people who live as full vegans going beyond food) - and so your decision won't impact heavily on the rollout.

You're not coming from a Covid denier/downplayer perspective. You're doing your best to mitigate in other ways - masks in crowded places, etc.

I know easier said than done but try not to stress about what to do. Think it through. One thing that might be worth considering is the potential for humans to give Covid to animals. Studies have suggested we can pass it to them (but so far not the other way). If you do decide to have the vaccine, perhaps think of it as helping to protect animals.

@MareofBeasttown
I am so glad you are!

It's selfish because some people cannot be vaccinated including children and in some people the vaccine is ineffective eg those on cancer treatment

Not being vaccinated can lead to increased transmission; if someone is otherwise very careful including good mask use and not directly spending time with anyone vulnerable, then that can be mitigated. The reason many people jump to thinking "selfish" may be people they know who are anti vaccination and anti mask or other mitigations; those people fit the label in a way that someone who's just unable to be jabbed or scared to be jabbed does not.

On the evidence to date, it's definitely a very stupid decision not to be vaccinated if someone can be. But people are entitled to be stupid. OP - your brother might be interested in this twitter thread, if he believes vaccinations aren't useful: mobile.twitter.com/covid19actuary/status/1420074353505546241. I've attached a nice graph.

@WanderingFruitWonderer

Yes I don't think it's the primary motivation - helping the public purse But it's a happy coincidence.

I firmly believe in the importance of allowing oneself to indulge in treats and enjoyment in life. Whatever stress relief gets someone through. For some people, that's smoking.

I guess smoking isn't vegan. I don't know - are cigarettes tested on animals? Animal derived ingredients?