Why is natural immunity ignored?

[SoOvethis]

I have seen several posts where people seem to think there is practically no protection from having caught Covid naturally and keep wondering why. But I think the reason is because there is never anything positive in the media about catching COVID naturally and low reinfection rates. I happened to come across an article today which I found surprising as that pointed out some statistics that show how unlikely you are to catch Covid twice.
That matches my real world experience too, I don’t know of anyone who has had confirmed Covid twice. And everyone that I now know who have caught recently are double jabbed but haven’t had covid naturally before.
If someone can prove that they had covid before or that they still have antibodies why can’t that be considered as “safe” as having the vaccinations? Especially as apparently the viral load is lower in those who have been reinfected.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/phe-upgrade-delta-variants-risk-level-due-to-reinfection-risk

This headline is totally misleading to what the article is actually telling you!

“ In light of the findings, PHE upgraded its risk assessment on “immunity after natural infection” from amber to red for the Delta variant. Reinfections remain a rarity though, accounting for only 1.2% of the 83,197 cases analysed.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9834687/Proof-Covid-turning-mild-illness-Survivors-reinfected-lower-viral-loads.html

“ Last April, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) began examining people who had been struck down with Covid to determine the risk of them catching it again.

Of the 19,470 people they studied between April 2020 and July 2021, 195 went on to catch Covid for a second time.

This equated to just one per cent of people being reinfected. ”

“ Only a quarter of those participants who were reinfected had a high viral load — considered to be a score below 30.”

“ The finding was based on real-world analysis of the third wave in England and looked at about 80,000 Delta cases.

But even with the increased risk posed by the mutant strain, the numbers of Britons getting reinfected still remains low.

Of the Delta cases PHE analysed over the past three months, just 1.2 per cent were identified as possible reinfections.”

(Possibly reinfection btw…interesting choice of word)

Re @MRexs’ post, a gp told me that often booster second vaccines aren’t actually needed eg the second mmr, but not everyone gets a response from the first one so they give everyone 2 to cover more people. Surely if this was in any way dangerous they would routinely antibody test before having the second vaccine.

Well my other thing is that I am not happy with my children possibly having to have a jab for something that they have already had when I know they recovered fine and are unlikely to catch it again. And even if they were in the 1% of those who get reinfected. latest studies are showing that the viral load will most likely be much less. And that’s the same excuse they are giving for being fully jabbed!?

Why should they risk any possible long term or severe immediate reactions?

The other thing that makes no sense to me is that if they bring in these mandated passports for events you cannot test to enter (even in France you can get a pass if you have had a antigen or PCR test within 48 hours)
How can you tell me that someone who has been double jabbed is more safe than someone who just tested negative when so many double jabbed people are currently catching Covid and clearly passing it on!?

just another thing to add in the scepticism box!

@SoOvethis I feel the same regarding DC. Mind won't be having the jab. They've had every other immunisation they're supposed to have. I see zero sense in giving them this one.

We take bloods for measles, rubella, chicken pox and Hep B immunity. If you have antibodies we do not stick unnecessary vaccines into you

Not where I am (in England). I've spent the last month or so going 'round and round with the local immunisation team. Their records don't have one of my kid's second MMR, but her father and I are sure she did as we remember it was faff as had moved around the time she was due it and it ended up being delayed and happened at the same time as her younger sibling got their first dose. Their solution is that she should just have another jab.

During a smear last year was questioned on why none of my imms. are on their records (I immigrated at 17 and none of my childhood stuff came over). She asked about 3 times, about the MMR specifically, and on my way out she said that if I wanted I could call and book an MMR jab.

While rubella was checked in each of my pregnancies, neither my DD or I have been offered any antibody checks while our imms. have been questioned. Is this something I should push for for my DD?

Sorry to butt in, but how does a person get tested for CV antibodies? (Please don't say "ask your GP" as we cannot get GP appointments for love nor money at the moment!) We're convinced we had Covid in late January / early February 2020 before any kind of testing was available, and we'd love to know if we have antibodies!

@JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue

Sorry to butt in, but how does a person get tested for CV antibodies? (Please don't say "ask your GP" as we cannot get GP appointments for love nor money at the moment!) We're convinced we had Covid in late January / early February 2020 before any kind of testing was available, and we'd love to know if we have antibodies!

As far as I know.... being part of an ONS study, or paying for a private test.

The Zoe App has invited me to take an antibody test.
Maybe join that?

@JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue
You can only get them privately or via a study. I have done both.
You can buy the finger prick tests online and do it at home - they aren’t always super sensitive so you might not get a like if your antibody levels are quite low or of course non existent.
Then there are blood drawn ones that give you a yes/no for having had covid or you can also now get a quantitative blood test which tells you the amount of antibodies you have.

I am sure I have had Covid twice. (Once confirmed) first time not confirmed but same symptoms.

I don't think they know enough to be sure yet.

(First time was the worst.)

Now vaccinated. I had both doses.

I've had COVID twice (confirmed) and had no antibodies 6 weeks after the last infection. It's really not that uncommon to have it twice (in the US where testing was widely available from the first wave onward the rate is way more than 1%). However if you were symptomatic the first time the second tends to be milder.

I had antibody tests in December when in hospital. Did the Zoe app as well this year. I still had antibodies in June, and I had the virus in the very beginning.

It's because of the antibodies that my consultants aren't concerned that I cannot have the vaccine even though I am vulnerable. I have mentioned this a few times on various threads, but of course I'm not a scientist so what I said doesn't count lol,anti vaccine, talking shite etc.

When pregnant I was tested for something. Didn't have any protection so got the vaccination after I had given birth. Had a reaction to it and next pregnancy I still didn't have any protection. Think it was rubella but that long ago I cannot remember. It was after that reaction I was told by family oh yea you had reactions to loads of stuff as a child, and why you didn't get the bcg in school.

My ds had it around September, I'm his only carer and I didn't get it again,

I know someone who definitely had it twice, positive PCR tests both times. Far worse the 2nd time.

He wisely has now had both vaccines.

My brother in law has had it twice, both times confirmed and he vent just as I'll the second time he caught it. Also, I have a colleague who caught it last December, about six weeks after his infection he was asked to donate plasma antibodies but when they tested him he didn't have any left. Some people lose their antibodies quite quickly.

He was just as ill

Well they can at least give people who have antibodies a pass!

But what happens when the antibodies wear off? It's all very well saying that but someone who has sufficient antibodies one week may not the next.

@EmmaOvary

But what happens when the antibodies wear off? It's all very well saying that but someone who has sufficient antibodies one week may not the next.

There's still your Tcell response. So it's not quite back to the beginning.

I know 3 people who’ve had Covid twice.

My line manager had unconfirmed covid early on in March 2020 when they stopped testing people. A few months later and she had antibodies then three months after this her antibodies were no longer present.

My best friends 16 year old son caught confirmed covid in September 2020 and he was quite poorly with it. He also tested positive for covid on a LFT and PCR test last week July 2021 but he’s been much less poorly this time around.

My kids have been quite poorly from norovirus, colds giving them croup with major breathing difficulties - colds given them reactive arthritis! Kids get sick - my kids were a bit poorly with Covid but they have had far worse and nobody seemed to be bothered by that.

Also re immunity, there are many reports of people still having immunity now post the original Sars!

There are also reports that some people who have had both jabs haven't got any antibodies especially those who are immunocompromised (?)

This is one of the reasons why I have issues with the proposed passport as it assumes everyone who has been vaxxed is protected.

Because there’s more evidence to show that natural immunity to Covid doesn’t last long at all and vaccine treatment works better. If you were to count the trials, it’s very, very heavily weighted in favour of vaccines.

I read a scientific journal recently which showed that the immune response from vaccinating was much more robust than from a previous infection. Some people don't have many antibodies at all a few months after infection and typically T cell response is not tested. Whereas after vaccination people consistently tested positive for antibodies several months after vaccination. So many people may be immune after infection, but a significant minority might not be, and while I'm not an economist I imagine it's just easier to vaccinate everyone than test everyone who tested positive for antibodies before deciding if they need a vaccine.

@EmmaOvary

But what happens when the antibodies wear off? It's all very well saying that but someone who has sufficient antibodies one week may not the next.

They don’t seem too bothered about that if they’re giving people vaccine passports even though they can still contract and spread the virus.

I have 2 pupils (that I know about - may be more) who had it in the autumn, then again this term just gone. Both much more poorly this time around - maybe as this one was the Delta variant.