Why is natural immunity ignored?

[SoOvethis]

I have seen several posts where people seem to think there is practically no protection from having caught Covid naturally and keep wondering why. But I think the reason is because there is never anything positive in the media about catching COVID naturally and low reinfection rates. I happened to come across an article today which I found surprising as that pointed out some statistics that show how unlikely you are to catch Covid twice.
That matches my real world experience too, I don’t know of anyone who has had confirmed Covid twice. And everyone that I now know who have caught recently are double jabbed but haven’t had covid naturally before.
If someone can prove that they had covid before or that they still have antibodies why can’t that be considered as “safe” as having the vaccinations? Especially as apparently the viral load is lower in those who have been reinfected.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/phe-upgrade-delta-variants-risk-level-due-to-reinfection-risk

This headline is totally misleading to what the article is actually telling you!

“ In light of the findings, PHE upgraded its risk assessment on “immunity after natural infection” from amber to red for the Delta variant. Reinfections remain a rarity though, accounting for only 1.2% of the 83,197 cases analysed.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9834687/Proof-Covid-turning-mild-illness-Survivors-reinfected-lower-viral-loads.html

“ Last April, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) began examining people who had been struck down with Covid to determine the risk of them catching it again.

Of the 19,470 people they studied between April 2020 and July 2021, 195 went on to catch Covid for a second time.

This equated to just one per cent of people being reinfected. ”

“ Only a quarter of those participants who were reinfected had a high viral load — considered to be a score below 30.”

“ The finding was based on real-world analysis of the third wave in England and looked at about 80,000 Delta cases.

But even with the increased risk posed by the mutant strain, the numbers of Britons getting reinfected still remains low.

Of the Delta cases PHE analysed over the past three months, just 1.2 per cent were identified as possible reinfections.”

(Possibly reinfection btw…interesting choice of word)

We take bloods for measles, rubella, chicken pox and Hep B immunity. If you have antibodies we do not stick unnecessary vaccines into you

When do you take bloods? I don’t recall pre blood tests for vaccines and I don’t know for sure if ds hasn’t had chicken pox

I know two people who got it twice

I was tested for immunity to loads of illnesses during pregnancy, ones @crapshow mentioned are pretty standard tests that are done when necessary. Can't believe people don't know this?

Case in point the pre-TB test done at school to see if you were immune to TB already, or would need the jab.

@Twoforthree

I know two people who got it twice

There was recent research saying that people who have had it twice have a lower viral load the second time- they are also less ill.

is it perhaps because it's so unpredictable? So some countries will give you one jab instead of two if you've had Covid (my friend in France had this happen to him) but they do still vaccinate in some form.

I am reasonably certain I had Covid last March. Was really unwell, lost taste and smell etc for ages (it wasn't added to the symptom list till May, I think) was in contact with someone who was a definite positive because he was hospitalised and tested. I wasn't tested because it was not easy at all back then. I had an antibody test about five weeks ago and it showed no antibodies. The colleague who I was in contact with (who was a confirmed positive) also had an antibody test about three months ago and he showed no antibodies. It's just perhaps not reliable enough at the moment to know how long the antibodies last, and what kind of protection against variants they offer. Presumably that's being studied intensely.

Those who are citing some kind of agenda, care to back that up?

@KurtWilde

Case in point the pre-TB test done at school to see if you were immune to TB already, or would need the jab.

I can’t remember any pre test for a vaccine for me when younger or dc

Unless pp is talking about adults

[quote XenoBitch]@crapshow

We take bloods for measles, rubella, chicken pox and Hep B immunity. If you have antibodies we do not stick unnecessary vaccines into you

I had my first Hep B jab, then didn't get the second (left the job that needed it). About 7 years later, had an antibody test for it and result was I had enough. Still got jabbed with the 2nd shot.[/quote]
Yes, because the schedule to achieve lifelong immunity is 3 jabs. 1 jab won't. The Hep B vaccine has been around for years so they know this.

@MarshaBradyo which country are you in? In the U.K. there's a pre-test for TB given in schools so they're not giving the jab to kids who don't need it. It's called the Mantoux test. If it proves you're already immune to TB then the jab won't be offered to you.

[quote KurtWilde]@MarshaBradyo which country are you in? In the U.K. there's a pre-test for TB given in schools so they're not giving the jab to kids who don't need it. It's called the Mantoux test. If it proves you're already immune to TB then the jab won't be offered to you. [/quote]
I’m in England I’ve not heard of this! Eldest is 16

I’ll look into it

Dc have had all other vaccines but no pre vaccine blood test and I’m not completely sure if 11 year old has had chicken pox, ie without pox which can happen, but will get vaccine but no blood test.

For children apart from TB test mentioned it’s not done? Maybe pp meant adults.

@KurtWilde

I was tested for immunity to loads of illnesses during pregnancy, ones *@crapshow* mentioned are pretty standard tests that are done when necessary. Can't believe people don't know this?

Exactly. I work in a hospital and all health care staff are tested for immunity if they don't know. However, even if they are not immune the vaccines are not mandatory.

The BCG for TB is no longer a routine childhood vaccine - stopped doing it late 1990s.

Children do not have blood tests before routine vaccines. I am talking about working in health care settings. And chicken pox is not a routine childhood vaccine as most kids have exposure and build up immunity.

The difference is for all these infections you have named natural infection usually confers lifelong immunity. Unlike coronavirus infection which doesn't. Different virus, different behaviour.

@MarshaBradyo the Mantoux test is for children or adults and given before the TB (BCG) jab to check for immunity.

During early pregnancy when they take your bloods they're testing for many things including immunity to rubella etc. That way they know which natural immunities you'll pass to your unborn baby and which jabs they should offer you to ensure you're both immune.

@crapshow Yea I'd forgotten BCG isn't routinely offered in schools anymore,

From what I understand from La Jolla Institute's research into natural immunity to SARS-COV-2, those of us who've had it have wide ranging levels of antibodies, CD4 and CD8 cells. Levels can vary 100-fold between individuals. I think this is one of the main reasons why vaccination is being pushed for those of us who've had Covid, because we 'can't guarantee' our levels of immunity, whereas on vaccination levels are more uniform, apparently.

This is the youtube video where Prof Shane Crotty of the institute talks about vaccine-induced and natural immunity:

He's a world leader into research on the virus and has published many papers along with his lab associates.

[quote KurtWilde]@MarshaBradyo the Mantoux test is for children or adults and given before the TB (BCG) jab to check for immunity.

During early pregnancy when they take your bloods they're testing for many things including immunity to rubella etc. That way they know which natural immunities you'll pass to your unborn baby and which jabs they should offer you to ensure you're both immune. [/quote]
I agree re when pregnant I do remember mention of this.

I think with Covid vaccine immunity isn’t standardised naturally (or lifelong) so someone with three months immunity could have vaccine which will make immunity longer than that.

I did hear an argument for hybrid immunity (natural / vaccine) on LBC the other day which was very interesting, so I’m definitely open to discussion but I think that Covid is quite variable across individuals.

Wonderful to see it becoming mainstream now [on here and in rl] that what the government tells us, is not always the full story.
People are no longer just believing at face value, what they are being told.

I have had covid and had the anti body test which confirmed I had those too.
Where I work were very big on all staff members having the vaccine. At first I was all for it with a little apprehension as I react oddly to medication.... was recently in hospital due to an allergic reaction to the most stupid of medication. I had gone to have my fist jab and was turned away awaiting the go ahead from my doctor. ( the jabs were taking place on site at work)
Then I receive a letter from my employer telling me that I would not be offered any more shifts if I did not have the vaccine. When I argued that I had anti bodies and there was no evidence that shows it slows or stops transmission they couldn’t argue. I’m still getting threatened, I’m still working and will continue to do so up to the point the sack me.

Plenty of countries are counting natural immunity. In ROI you only get one dose of the vaccine if you’ve recovered from covid. You also get the same privileges as the vaccinated if you have recovered from covid.

And reinfection, while possible, is pretty rare thus far.

If you’re trying to vaccinate millions of people as fast as possible, it might just be more efficient to do everyone than to assess different levels of immunity and work out who needs it.

There’s also the public information aspect - as a PP said, you’d end up with lots of people who had a bad cold last March assuming they are immune.

And there is the issue of vaccine hesitancy and a mixed message about whether it’s necessary would make that worse. Best keep it simple and give it to everyone.

As I said upthread, I'd be more than happy to have a booster type jab for Covid, like the yearly flu jab. Until that's offered I'm happy with my natural immunity.

Me and my DC had confirmed positive results late January into February. We've since been close contacts with 2 confirmed cases and not picked it up again.

Isn’t it less straight forward than things like chicken pox etc because of the variants. A bit like you can have flu more than once, just a different strain. The vaccine might partially protect to differing degrees chances of infection and severity but it will depend on the variant and to cover you as much as we currently can the vaccine is a good option. If you previously had covid, we also don’t know how long immunity lasts for, and short of taking blood tests at regular intervals to check to antibodies, the vaccine will cover you for as long as it is effective (which we still don’t know). I see the covid vaccine as something we may end out with every year that’s tweaked like the flu jab.

[quote XenoBitch]@crapshow

We take bloods for measles, rubella, chicken pox and Hep B immunity. If you have antibodies we do not stick unnecessary vaccines into you

I had my first Hep B jab, then didn't get the second (left the job that needed it). About 7 years later, had an antibody test for it and result was I had enough. Still got jabbed with the 2nd shot.[/quote]
This really isn't true in most cases. DS was never tested for measles, rubella nor chickenpox antibodies before his vaccines. I'd had measles and rubella vaccines but not mumps, so was given MMR even though clearly antibodies were expected to the other two. No side effects of course, because I was immune. I was never tested for Hep B before the jab either.

@MRex

This really isn't true in most cases. DS was never tested for measles, rubella nor chickenpox antibodies before his vaccines. I'd had measles and rubella vaccines but not mumps, so was given MMR even though clearly antibodies were expected to the other two. No side effects of course, because I was immune. I was never tested for Hep B before the jab either

I was on a HCP uni course so had to have the jabs, hence the testing for immunity etc. I didn't even have a record of my childhood or school ones so had to have a test for all of them,