Why is natural immunity ignored?

[SoOvethis]

I have seen several posts where people seem to think there is practically no protection from having caught Covid naturally and keep wondering why. But I think the reason is because there is never anything positive in the media about catching COVID naturally and low reinfection rates. I happened to come across an article today which I found surprising as that pointed out some statistics that show how unlikely you are to catch Covid twice.
That matches my real world experience too, I don’t know of anyone who has had confirmed Covid twice. And everyone that I now know who have caught recently are double jabbed but haven’t had covid naturally before.
If someone can prove that they had covid before or that they still have antibodies why can’t that be considered as “safe” as having the vaccinations? Especially as apparently the viral load is lower in those who have been reinfected.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/phe-upgrade-delta-variants-risk-level-due-to-reinfection-risk

This headline is totally misleading to what the article is actually telling you!

“ In light of the findings, PHE upgraded its risk assessment on “immunity after natural infection” from amber to red for the Delta variant. Reinfections remain a rarity though, accounting for only 1.2% of the 83,197 cases analysed.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9834687/Proof-Covid-turning-mild-illness-Survivors-reinfected-lower-viral-loads.html

“ Last April, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) began examining people who had been struck down with Covid to determine the risk of them catching it again.

Of the 19,470 people they studied between April 2020 and July 2021, 195 went on to catch Covid for a second time.

This equated to just one per cent of people being reinfected. ”

“ Only a quarter of those participants who were reinfected had a high viral load — considered to be a score below 30.”

“ The finding was based on real-world analysis of the third wave in England and looked at about 80,000 Delta cases.

But even with the increased risk posed by the mutant strain, the numbers of Britons getting reinfected still remains low.

Of the Delta cases PHE analysed over the past three months, just 1.2 per cent were identified as possible reinfections.”

(Possibly reinfection btw…interesting choice of word)

Interesting. This might be one of the reasons that many countries only recommend one injection instead of 2 ? It is assumed that having had Covid is the equivalent to the first injection?

Because if this was well known information they wouldn’t be able to coerce people into taking the vaccine.

I still don’t understand why people with natural immunity are still being told to get vaccinated.

I mentioned on a couple of other threads with people stating we couldn't couldn't close to herd immunity that we can't forget that likely between 10-20 million have likely got natural antibodies to the virus.

Yes many of them would have had vaccines too but I would guess at least 10% of the unvaccinated population have natural immunity which would push the numbers towards herd immunity right up.

Yes, they possibly might only need one dose to be used as a booster in the future

www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00194-8/fulltext

I think its because a lot of people who 'had covid' in the early days weren't actually confirmed by testing. So if it was widely agreed that that counted as immunity, you'd have a lot of people who had a bad cold in February/March 2020 declaring themselves as immune when in reality most of them aren't.

I'm in Ireland and people who had confirmed covid in the previous I think 6 months have just been given a second jab. But there are concerns about natural - and vaccine - immunity waning. They're tracking it though, and updating guidance based on the latest data. My toddler had covid recently and has now been told she's considered immune for 9 months.

I'm actually someone who had a bad cough/loss of taste and smell in Feb 2020 and thinks it was probably covid but had the vaccine anyway. In part, thinking I've had it before and may have some extra immunity made me more confident getting it. Also, there's talk that having two different 'kinds' of vaccine may boost immunity, so I figure having had it in real life (if I did) and having a vaccine may boost my immunity even further. But public health advise is usually based on what makes most sense at a population level, and I think encouraging widespread vaccination makes more sense than going into huge detail about the minority of cases where it might not be necessary/make a difference which will just dilute the overall message.

‘They’ meaning those who caught Covid and have natural immunity ..

Having had covid I see no reason why I'd need to have the vaccine, too. I've read enough on natural immunity after contracting the virus to feel comfortable about my level of immunity to it in the future. I'm not suggesting it's a lifelong immunity but as with the annual flu jab I'd be happy to have something like that if it was offered. I won't however be coerced and bullied and shamed into having 2 jabs for an illness I've already had this year.

Best protection appears to actually be for those who have caught covid and had the vaccine.

Also, I know so many people who were 'sure' they'd had covid, up until the point that they actually caught covid. Plenty more would lie. And while natural immunity is great, it does wear off.

As a country, we're far better off vaccinating everyone than either taking it on trust that people have had covid, or having to set arbitrary timelines (what if you had covid but a year ago?), or test people for antibodies then ask them to come back again if nothing is found.

SPI-M use figures of 85-100% protection from previous infection of any variant in their models (plus a little waning).

Clearly the scientists think that previous infection is very good at preventing transmission. This isn't really communicated to the public.

A relation is a paramedic and she talks about colleges having it first time round and then getting it again ,one person on particular had it much worse second time round less then 6 months after he first go it.

I assume it’s because they can’t be sure ( although I agree it is likely to be the case) and because they don’t want to discourage vaccine uptake. I read the sweet spot is double jabbed and then catching Covid ( mildly) afterwards!

Of you've had a positive test result it's logged and communicated via text and email, it's also on your medical records. Obviously those who only guessed they had it without a test can't really be used in the data, but those of us who have proof of positive infection should only be offered a booster imo.

I'd guess it's because it's much harder to model how long we can expect natural immunity to last and that the viral load will differ more greatly that with a regulated jab.
It is part of the planning though I suspect, they just aren't telling us in so many words.
Nightclubs opening now are a better option than the natural spread at universities in the autumn.

Because it's not convenient. It doesn't suit the agenda of getting everybody vaccinated so immunity acquired through infection is ignored or at best painted as inferior

I know several people who have had (confirmed) cases of covid twice.

@Cindy974

Because if this was well known information they wouldn’t be able to coerce people into taking the vaccine.

I still don’t understand why people with natural immunity are still being told to get vaccinated.

I agree. I am a clinician and if we take bloods for antibody levels for other diseases and they are immune we DO NOT give a vaccine. Makes you wonder about the current coercion and withholding previous freedoms if you don't comply. I find it quite worrying and the reason why I won't be bullied into it.

I agree. I am a clinician and if we take bloods for antibody levels for other diseases and they are immune we DO NOT give a vaccine.

Can you say more on this, which diseases do you mean? And when do you do bloods, say eg for chicken pox or other (ask about that as we need to do cp)

Maybe uptake would be much lower

You see posts on here from those who are sure they’ve had Covid but no test at the time, who’d then not have it but might be wrong.

@MarshaBradyo

Maybe uptake would be much lower

You see posts on here from those who are sure they’ve had Covid but no test at the time, who’d then not have it but might be wrong.

Yup and the other issue is that whilst vaccination is a controlled process where you're getting the optimum dose of antigen to trigger a good immune response, infection is completely variable.

Lots of evidence to suggest people with low viral load and mild symptoms don't have long lasting immunity.

Isn’t there a bit of a dispute over how long the immunity from covid exposure lasts? So for some it’s as little as three months. At least the vaccine is more measurable.

Because if this was well known information they wouldn’t be able to coerce people into taking the vaccine.

Why do countries want to coerce people into getting vaccines? The vaccine drives must be costing billions?

Because it's not convenient. It doesn't suit the agenda of getting everybody vaccinated so immunity acquired through infection is ignored or at best painted as inferior

What is the purpose of this 'agenda'?

also I wouldn't say natural immunity is being ignored as such, more we know the limitations of it

The ONS are doing a huge antibody study specifically testing for natural rather than vaccine induced. Got my testing kit ready to go but scared of the lancet

@MarshaBradyo

I agree. I am a clinician and if we take bloods for antibody levels for other diseases and they are immune we DO NOT give a vaccine.

Can you say more on this, which diseases do you mean? And when do you do bloods, say eg for chicken pox or other (ask about that as we need to do cp)

We take bloods for measles, rubella, chicken pox and Hep B immunity. If you have antibodies we do not stick unnecessary vaccines into you.

Sorry been MIA! Thanks for all the responses. Was actually surprised I didn’t get bashed for daring to say that natural immunity is actually a “thing” and also not bashed for linking a daily mail article 🤣

I agree it is obviously difficult for those who had it in the early days (like me), but a lot of us still have antibodies. I guess it’s the ones without that would slip through the net.

I have said it on other threads. My latest antibody test about 6/7 weeks ago which was 15/16 months post infection showed I had a very high level.

I am just more surprised by the lack of general knowledge - the minute I try and tell anyone I had covid and have antibodies, the first comment they always say is - you know you can get it again and antibodies only last 6 months….obv not the case for me!

And yes, France is a country where if you can prove you had covid before your jab then they give you one vaccine and you are considered fully vaccinated.
I remember reading back in the day that actually having had covid and getting one jab gives much better antibody response than not having had Covid and having 2 jabs.

I think the government/scientists don’t help themselves by not properly acknowledging this. It makes it look more fishy and I believe makes people more sceptical about the vaccine. Why the intense push to vaccinate if we know natural immunity is as good (if not better) than just being jabbed…
Makes you wonder!?

@crapshow

We take bloods for measles, rubella, chicken pox and Hep B immunity. If you have antibodies we do not stick unnecessary vaccines into you

I had my first Hep B jab, then didn't get the second (left the job that needed it). About 7 years later, had an antibody test for it and result was I had enough. Still got jabbed with the 2nd shot.