People refusing the vaccine why do defensive?

[fertilitybs]

I know a few people refusing the vaccine.

Whenever it comes up in conversation they her VERY argumentative, even though I haven't started any arguments and am actually quite respectful of peoples choice to not take it.

My question is, why are those not taking the vaccine getting so weird about it? If you're going to decide not to take it you should own your decisions.

Also people not taking it appear very entitled - want their cake and eat it. Still want to go nightclubs but still don't want the vaccine.

Can't have it both ways, you're also not being forced. I have no idea why people not taking the vaccine think this?

Anyway just a rant based on a recent disagreement with a family member.

Feel free to share your experience with me!

Bloody hell I meant the first group don't don't understand risk, not the second group

And stillll no answer about those who can't have it for medical reasons from the op...

At the same time people who take the vaccine do so out of fear too, either of what the virus could to to them or to society or to people they love.

Actually no, I got the vaccine because of my elderly parents who I don't want to put a needless risk.

And I also got the vaccine because I know some people can't get vaccinated due to medical reasons.

@CaptSkippy You mentioned nightclubs. Who would you prefer could go into a nightclub:

Someone who has had 2 jabs but has covid
Or
Someone who is unvaccinated but does a test prior to entry and doesn't have covid?

Do you think people should have 2 vaccinations before they can access other enclosed spaces e.g. public transport, shops?

@Pollypocket89

And stillll no answer about those who can't have it for medical reasons from the op...

I think the thread title says it all.

Refusing as opposed to can't have it for medical reasons. There is a difference.

Did you not read the title of the thread?

And here we go again.

[quote BringBackThinEyebrows]@CaptSkippy You mentioned nightclubs. Who would you prefer could go into a nightclub:

Someone who has had 2 jabs but has covid
Or
Someone who is unvaccinated but does a test prior to entry and doesn't have covid?

Do you think people should have 2 vaccinations before they can access other enclosed spaces e.g. public transport, shops?[/quote]
It doesn't have to be either or. We can do testing on all. Vaccination is never a 100% garanteed you are protected, which is why it's important to get as many people vaccinated as possible. This is also to ward against mutations where no vaccine is effective and we'll be back to square one.

[quote fertilitybs]@xXOXOx they are approved for usage - they are not under trials[/quote]
I think people who post this don't understand the stages all meds, vaccine etc go through. It's a lack of understanding.

@fertilitybs

You are free to make whatever choice you want in life, but every choice comes with concenquences. We teach children this, I don't understand why adults struggle with this concept.

Because many are entitled that's my point.

What is it that you think the 'entitled' people feel they are entitled to?

It's quite possible for an unvaccinated person to catch covid, not be ill, and not pass it to anybody. Does anybody actually know the level of risk? I'd be really interested to see the studies on this, if anyone has a link. Because that's what we're talking about: the degree of risk. There are other ways of controlling risk of transmission other than having the vaccine. Many other ways. And we should all be respecting those ways, still, even the vaccinated, because vaccinated people may have lowered their risk, but they haven't obliterated it.

If a vaccinated person goes to a nightclub without testing negative first, and I, unvaccinated, stay home, thenthe vaccinated person has a far higher likelihood of catching or passing on covid on that occasion than I do. If I get my shopping delivered or go to the shops at 7am in the morning, and the vaccinated person goes to the shops on Saturday afternoon when it's busy and people are having to brush against each other, the vaccinated person will pose more of a covid risk than unvaccinated me. If a vaccinated person spends most evenings indoors in busy pubs, and I go to a pub once every couple of months when it's quiet, and I choose to sit outside, who is causing the greatest risk?

I think that the reason this gets so venomous is because people are polarised and it's not polar. Everybody still poses a risk, vaccinated or not, and the level of risk they pose is directly relative to their behaviour. An unvaccinated person in a nightclub may still overall be a person who poses less of a risk than many vaccinated people.

The assumption that all unvaccinated people are murderous, unthinking, selfish idiots is unreasonable. I've thought long and hard, and am able to stay in a roughly 'lockdown' style life for the time being. If something happens to change that, I will re-analyse how much time I'm having to spend with people, and if I deem myself to be at to high a risk of contracting/transmitting covid, it'll tip the balance for me and I'll get the jab.

If anybody can post any studies on risk levels, so that I don't have to be 'deeming myself' safe or unsafe, I'd love to see them. What I'm working on at the moment is that lockdown worked in general, so if I stay in lockdown, or as close as I can to it, then I am drastically lowering my ris of transmission.

All of those saying it is still in clinical trials until 2023...if you'll note medical staff were the first group to receive it and I haven't heard about vast numbers of them refusing.

All of my doctor friends, some consultants, took it without hesitation and there knowledge is over and above that of mine.

It's worth more than a lay person's 5 minutes of Google research

*their sodding auto correct

But it's still their choice to take it. And others choice not to. It doesn't matter if they are a Dr or whatever profession, its about choice not force

No 'side' should be judged for having it or not having it. Nobody knows the long term effects. Nobody. Even the people who created it. That's a fact.

@TheTallOakTrees

I think people who post this don't understand the stages all meds, vaccine etc go through. It's a lack of understanding

Can you post an explanation or a link to one, please? As far as I'm aware, we can't know if there are long term effects from these vaccines, they have had some unexpected (and sometimes deadly) side effects, and I don't think people en masse have been in a position before where they are being pressured to take a medication at this stage of testing. They may have been offered them, but that's very different.

they are approved for usage - they are not under trials

and

Approved for emergency use only, as yet it’s not had FDA approval as far as I’m aware?

and

This is incorrect... they are still undergoing trials, they have been approved on an emergency basis.

All wrong.

Initially, the Pfizer BioNTech and AZ vaccines were introduced an under emergency exception from the Human Medicines regs.

All three vaccines in use in GB now have conditional Marketing Authorisations in GB from the MHRA. They are all ‘black triangle’ medicines which means they are under more intensive post marketing surveillance and data collection. This is normal for new medicines.

Whatever the FDA does is irrelevant outside the USA.

@CrouchEndTiger12

There are many very well educated people who have refused the vaccine too. What your clever friends have done isn't a strong argument for the vaccine.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

Approved for emergency use only, as yet it’s not had FDA approval as far as I’m aware

Are you saying this one isn't wrong, then, but that it's irrelevant outside the USA?

[quote TheFoundations]@WiseUpJanetWeiss

Approved for emergency use only, as yet it’s not had FDA approval as far as I’m aware

Are you saying this one isn't wrong, then, but that it's irrelevant outside the USA?[/quote]
It’s wrong on both counts. PB and AZ vaccines were initially introduced under a Reg 174 emergency exception from the Human Medicines Regs. These have both been superseded by the conditional Marketing Authorisations. This means they (and Moderna) have product licences in GB.

The cMAs are under active review, but the people using this to claim the products are untested and experimental are being either disingenuous or have been misled by scaremongering.

Apologies, feeling a bit tetchy after the incitement to violence towards HCPs by anti vaxxers in Trafalgar Square yesterday.

@Pixxie7

By restricting people who haven’t had the vaccine that they can’t do certain things it’s basically forcing people to be vaccinated. I think everyone is aware that they should be vaccinated they shouldn’t be forced. Ok we know the vaccine is safe now but there are no studies about possible future problems.

It's not forcing people though. Just like if a nightclub asks you to wear smart clothes you're not been forced to do that because if you really disagree then you could opt to not go to the nightclub.

@Pollypocket89

And stillll no answer about those who can't have it for medical reasons from the op...

The thread wasn't about people who can't medically get the vaccine. They haven't refused have they? So read the title again - I'm talking about people who have been offered it, are able to take it and have refused.

But how do you distinguish? If somebody in their family has a medical condition that disables them from having the vacinne, why is it unreasonable for the family member to be scared enough to not have it in case it effects them too?

It takes literally an ounce of empathy to open your mind a little more

I'm not shouting you down even though I disagree with what you say. I think your opinion is dangerous and ridiculous but I'd still defend your free speech, free will and freedom to make your own choices for yourself

Anyone that believes venues - especially large scale venues like nightclubs - are going to persist, long term, with properly checking peoples vaccination status before entry is being incredibly naiive imo.

A few will do the performance of checking for a short period before it fades off. Much like registering your details for T&T was a BIG THING for a while and then, in many pubs, trailed off to a sad, ignored clipboard left on the bar that no one bothered with and no one enforced.

Hospitality doesn't have the time, the people or the money to not only enforce it properly (which would mean having to check ID thoroughly as well as whatever vax status) but also risk turning customers away.

The filthy unvaxxed who want entry will simply screenshot someone else's proof if need be. Or photo copy paper proof.

I haven't read the whole thread, got to page 4, and then skipped to the last page, so apologies if I'm repeating anyone.
But anyway, if some (and it's definitely not all) vaccine refusers are getting defensive, it's because so many of the extreme pro-vax crowd (not just ordinary bods who've had the vaccine, but the extreme pro vaxxers I mean) are often being very aggressive. Aggression from one side naturally follows defensiveness from the other. The attacked party naturally feels the need to defend themselves. That happens in pretty much every area of life. It's very difficult to override, try as you might...

The attacks on those who've chosen not to be vaccinated, are really quite shocking tbh.

[quote TheFoundations]@CrouchEndTiger12

There are many very well educated people who have refused the vaccine too. What your clever friends have done isn't a strong argument for the vaccine.[/quote]
Nor is I just don't want it because

I find it incredibly worrying how many people who have decided to take this experimental mRNA vaccine, are deluded into believing they are virtuous and intelligent.

Does it not worry you, when you see the outrageous coercion in the media? The frightening propaganda? Does it not make you stop and think for one second “what on earth is this about”.

The vaccine was created for high risk people. There is no need to mass vaccination of healthy people, and people who have already had this virus.
We do not know the long term affects in human population. There is nothing wrong with wanting to wait it out a few more years to get some long term data to be able to make an informed decision.

Unvaccinated people probably have that reaction to the subject because they are sick and tired of being vilified and ridiculed for using their brains and making a choice on what is right for them at this time.

I just recovered from covid, was like a cold for me. I am not vaccinated, I caught it from a vaccinated person who suffered quite badly. I was told that “that’s what happens when you don’t get jabbed” gloat gloat but we’re just going to ignore the fact the jabbed person got it and passed it on?

Worrying.