SAGE adviser says achieving herd immunity by letting cases rise is Govt plan now

[herecomesthsun]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/ministers-letting-young-people-catch-covid-to-prepare-for-winter-sage-adviser-claims

“What we are seeing is a decision by the government to get as many people infected as possible, as quickly as possible [e.g. in nightclubs], while using rhetoric about caution as a way of putting the blame on the public for the consequences,” said Prof Robert West, a health psychologist at University College London who participates in Sage’s behavioural science subgroup.

“It looks like the government judges that the damage to health and healthcare services will be worth the political capital it will gain from this approach,” West said, adding that ministers appear to believe the strategy is now sustainable – unlike last year – because of the vaccine rollout.

That did seem pretty obvious by the fact they're opening up and knew cases would rise. Also stopping isolating in schools can only be a deliberate plan to say they want school spread.

Maybe it will work...

Also all the rhetoric around "if not now when?" Suggesting they want spread now to avoid the issues with spread in winter.

Should be noted that Prof West is very anti Conservative, is also on Independent SAGEs advisory group, and wants a zero covid policy. So he might not be totally objective?

I2
'm not even entirely sure what the problem is with it. If we are vaccinated and have to exit somehow at some point. Summer makes more sense than Winter.

There's no easy way out is there.

We have to start somewhere. Some sectors in the economy can't take much more.
I think the timings are good. If the vaccine does not work, we are able to lock down or change rules before kids go back to school. or
nobody is forced into attending night clubs

It's a sound policy tbh, I can't think of a better plan can you?

He's a behavioural psychologist. I'm not sure when he became an expert in pandemic handling. Continued restrictions aren't a low cost or risk option.

Independent Sage is not anti-conservative - it just rightly questions our very dubious approach to the pandemic which has seen more civilian deaths in this country than during the war. The rest of the world, including the World Health Organisation and hundreds of scientists and doctors are condemning this approach. The CDC is now advising Americans not to travel here.

Other countries will be affected by Delta but will be less so because they are keeping masks, social distancing and are vaccinating their young with America even due to move towards vaccinating under 12s. Meanwhile we are allowing exponential spread to score political points and because we have messed up our vaccine supply meaning we haven’t got enough for our kids so it’s easier to just let them get infected. This risks more loss of life, more long covid, more pressure on a medical services and infrastructure and more risk of vaccine escape and new variants.

@GingerandTilly so I'm meant to trust independent sage over the JCVI when it comes to vaccine policy? Aren't they self appointed?

@GingerandTilly

Independent Sage is not anti-conservative - it just rightly questions our very dubious approach to the pandemic which has seen more civilian deaths in this country than during the war. The rest of the world, including the World Health Organisation and hundreds of scientists and doctors are condemning this approach. The CDC is now advising Americans not to travel here.

Other countries will be affected by Delta but will be less so because they are keeping masks, social distancing and are vaccinating their young with America even due to move towards vaccinating under 12s. Meanwhile we are allowing exponential spread to score political points and because we have messed up our vaccine supply meaning we haven’t got enough for our kids so it’s easier to just let them get infected. This risks more loss of life, more long covid, more pressure on a medical services and infrastructure and more risk of vaccine escape and new variants.

Wonder what the average age of death is for war. Probably not 82... Like are you kidding me.. no comparison.

Oh look it’s the Guardian. No agenda then.

Deaths in relation to cases are clearly down post vax.

This is currently no worse than a bad flu season.

If this works, you can bet your arse the world will follow our example shortly. Why not try it? Have faith in immunity via vax/infections. What’s the alternative? Carry on living half lives whilst ALL our biological clocks are ticking on?

@MummyPop00

Oh look it’s the Guardian. No agenda then.

Deaths in relation to cases are clearly down post vax.

This is currently no worse than a bad flu season.

If this works, you can bet your arse the world will follow our example shortly. Why not try it? Have faith in immunity via vax/infections. What’s the alternative? Carry on living half lives whilst ALL our biological clocks are ticking on?

try dying? no thanks

[quote GiveMeNovocain]@GingerandTilly so I'm meant to trust independent sage over the JCVI when it comes to vaccine policy? Aren't they self appointed?[/quote]
this guy is on government SAGE

The thing is, individual people WILL die because of this approach. I don't think the fact that this happens to achieve herd immunity will be much consolation to their families.

Myself and DP were putting masks on to enter a shop yesterday. We were informed by another customer "oh you don't have to worry about those now" and she looked at us like we were aliens when we kept them on. We have both had covid (it was SHIT) and im double vaccinated but im not niave enough to believe covid packed its bags on the 19th July and i have no wish to become a statistic. More importantly, it is a more feasible scenario that we may be asymptomatic and likely to infect others , i have no desire to infect a vulnerable person. Masks protect others and i think its outrageous that many retail workers and public facing employees now don't have that protection.

It is no coincidence that this change of approach coincided with the appointment of a new health secretary.

@hereconesthesun

How far do you want the chips stacked in your favour? Be fortunate that you are living in a era where a vaccine has been produced in double quick time, be brave & get on with it.

@musicalfrog

It's a sound policy tbh, I can't think of a better plan can you?

oh yes

herd immunity won't work, we tried it already remember

[quote MummyPop00]@hereconesthesun

How far do you want the chips stacked in your favour? Be fortunate that you are living in a era where a vaccine has been produced in double quick time, be brave & get on with it.[/quote]
so not a personal comment, but that statement is extremely foolish and cruel

not brave but stupid

@LEMtheoriginal

The thing is, individual people WILL die because of this approach. I don't think the fact that this happens to achieve herd immunity will be much consolation to their families.

Myself and DP were putting masks on to enter a shop yesterday. We were informed by another customer "oh you don't have to worry about those now" and she looked at us like we were aliens when we kept them on. We have both had covid (it was SHIT) and im double vaccinated but im not niave enough to believe covid packed its bags on the 19th July and i have no wish to become a statistic. More importantly, it is a more feasible scenario that we may be asymptomatic and likely to infect others , i have no desire to infect a vulnerable person. Masks protect others and i think its outrageous that many retail workers and public facing employees now don't have that protection.

It is no coincidence that this change of approach coincided with the appointment of a new health secretary.

It's no coincidence that the last health secretary was escorted out of office via some sort of set up, I suspect

@LEMtheoriginal

The thing is, individual people WILL die because of this approach. I don't think the fact that this happens to achieve herd immunity will be much consolation to their families.

Myself and DP were putting masks on to enter a shop yesterday. We were informed by another customer "oh you don't have to worry about those now" and she looked at us like we were aliens when we kept them on. We have both had covid (it was SHIT) and im double vaccinated but im not niave enough to believe covid packed its bags on the 19th July and i have no wish to become a statistic. More importantly, it is a more feasible scenario that we may be asymptomatic and likely to infect others , i have no desire to infect a vulnerable person. Masks protect others and i think its outrageous that many retail workers and public facing employees now don't have that protection.

It is no coincidence that this change of approach coincided with the appointment of a new health secretary.

but it won't achieve herd immunity; all it will achieve is having more people die (as you also, rightly, say)

@herecomesthesun

If you want to cower under your bed for the rest of your existence that’s your prerogative. I choose not to. I don’t think that’s stupid. I didn’t cower away in 2018 (last bad flu season, 300-400 deaths per day at the peak) so I’m not going to be a hypocrite now.

@GiveMeNovocain

He's a behavioural psychologist. I'm not sure when he became an expert in pandemic handling. Continued restrictions aren't a low cost or risk option.

the Government appointed him to sit on SAGE; he seems a bit more sensible than Dingwall to be honest

I already have a mask and wearing it costs me nothing.

[quote MummyPop00]@herecomesthesun

If you want to cower under your bed for the rest of your existence that’s your prerogative. I choose not to. I don’t think that’s stupid. I didn’t cower away in 2018 (last bad flu season, 300-400 deaths per day at the peak) so I’m not going to be a hypocrite now.[/quote]
why would anyone be a hypocrite for taking precautions in a pandemic?

@herecomesthsun

Did you do everything you are doing now during the flu season of 2018?

Don’t bother answering.

[quote MummyPop00]@herecomesthsun

Did you do everything you are doing now during the flu season of 2018?

Don’t bother answering.[/quote]
Don't even know what you are talking about sorry

@herecomesthsun you clearly need to get out a bit more. Wearing a mask and tin foil hat.
Seriously as said many times up thread, the timings are good, we can place restrictions for September if we'd need to.
think about it, it's summer, schools are closed, most people have a week or two holidays booked, vaccinations are available to all adults.